What's With Keeping Snakes In Racks Small Without Hides?

This is an interesting discussion because my tune has definitely started to change after inquiring my 1st BP. I was told that tubs were the way to go because of how easy they were, etc, etc........BUT being the novice w/o any experience, I opted for a more visual experience (pvc enclosure). There's no way I wanted to spend all this $$ on a beautiful creature and not be able to view him his enclosure. Boy was I wrong...very rarely do I ever see him outside of his hide. So just maybe, If I ever get another, I'll go the tub / rack route.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

And I don't see why you would't give the snake a hide you can always make one..

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Because most when provided with proper secure environment like in a tub will absolutely not use it.

There is a lot of things you can learn with experience and reading your animals and learning from them, and there are a lot of thing you can try to see what work best for you and your animals, but after 4 months you do not know it all, even I don't and the key to successful ownership is to be open.

Every one is entitled to opinion. I keep mine in a tub. She thrives in it. Now I also see her hanging at the top and seems to enjoy coming out.

Keeping in a big tank is fine as long as you keep your temps on check. and provide ample hide.

I also notice most of the snakes on here that are stressed and not eating, is not due to the fact they're in tanks or tubs. Most of these problems from what I have read on here are from people not properly researching before buying a snake. Having no thermostat or temp gauges, not keeping room at proper temp etc...I have no idea about rack systems and don't plan on ever having more than 1 or 2 snakes. I will graduate to PVC when the time comes. I'm sure if you have tons of snakes it makes a lot of sense to have a rack system. :)

I won't say that tubs are cruel at all.

SDA, you say you are against tubs but would never bash people who keep their snakes in them. I agree with that except people who keep their snakes in tubs regularly bash and make people feel bad for keeping their snakes in tanks. Like Deborah said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I've even seen people who have on point husbandry with tanks be talked down on.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I always love when people (with 3 snakes first one acquired in June) disagree with others that have been keeping snakes SUCCESSFULLY for a decade or more.

Bottom line there is more than one way to skin a cat, if what works for you works for you then GREAT, not sure why you feel compel to disagree or making such judgement as but yeah like you said :rolleyes:

It's not about being a breeder or pet owner it's about providing the proper environment for your snake, now tell me how many people using tanks or large enclosure do you see all the time on forums with the following issue.

My animal is stressed, it won't eat, it has a RI etc

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Yes at the end of the day this is pretty much a matter of opinion, like I said earlier proper temperatures and humidity are more important. And a lot of the people with those issues are new to keeping snakes in general.

I keep my BPs (and some other small species) in racks, but they all have tubs large enough for 2 or 1 hide, water bowl, and movement space. In some cases, I've opted to remove the hide to allow for more moving room for some of my adult BPs who don't seem to use a hide much. Other, shyer, animals are given hides because they will go off food without them.

IMO, you generally want the footprint (length +width) of the enclosure (tub, tank, pvc, whatever) to be equal to or greater than the length of the snake. This allows plenty of stretching room, etc.

Some of my other snakes (non-BPs) have pvc cages with the guideline above, but also a shelf to climb on to if they want to.

I think you just have to make adjustments for each species and individual you keep... Some people may have a BP that refuses to eat in a larger tub, some have an animal that needs more room.

IMO there is no wrong way to house your animal, given that you meet their needs for temps, humidity, cleanliness, etc. It is best if we all remain open to other methods because we may one day have to change our own methods up if your circumstances change.

OP might want to do some basic research.

I'm sorry for making an idiot of myself, I thought I'd just share my opinion and I didn't mean to rustle any feathers or anything, I'll just go for a while. Peace out

Hi,

Over the years I have tried both, and various substrates in them.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

Now before I get started let me just say I don't have anything against keeping snakes in racks or tubs. They can be great enclosures and they hold humidity better than the traditional tank with a mesh lid. Nor Is this intended as an attack on another forum member. I just happen to disagree with this method of keeping reptiles.

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Now, as I stated before I don't have anything against racks but keeping your reptiles seems downright cruel to me. They don't even have enough space to stretch out. Which is how I go about picking enclosures. If they eat, sleep, breed and poop I guess they're fine but that doesn't seem like any way to live. I consider the minimum a water bowl of some sort, a hide, and a enclosure large enough for the snake to fully stretch out in. As far as I'm concerned if those are met and humidity and temperatures are correct than it doesn't matter what enclosures you keep them in.

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Disagreeing is allowed so no need to leave for a while. :)

All I can say is my snakes do better in a tub than they ever did in a large vivarium **shrug** I use newspaper substrate which they can get under if they feel exposed so, essentially, the entire tub is a hide that touches them on all sides even if they move from one end to the other. The only bit they cannot get under is where the heavy ceramic water bowls are.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

I actually brought this subject up and every one wanted to be soo against me. But like I said on my thread, surviving is NOT thriving. Thriving is absolutely not eating, breeding, and pooping. And yes, just surviving animals will breed and eat.

I myself keep my snake in a tub but he has multiple hides, plants, stuff to climb around on and can stretch out fully and still have space to spare. People who keep their snakes like that are not thinking of enrichment and the well-being of the snakes, they are thinking of what is time, effort, and cost effective for them, and that definitely doesn't excuse what they are doing.
Just because snakes are of lesser intelligence than say, a cat or a dog, does not mean they should be subjected to life in a plastic tub with substrate, a water bowl and MAYBE a single hide.

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I mainly find the most common thing they do with climbing structures once they get older is fall off them and look affronted at you. Males seem better at not doing so but I always worried they would fall on the rim of the waterbowl and hurt themselves. :oops:

My tubs are wardrobe drawers approx 3 foot by 2 so they can stretch ok from what I have seen - and they consistently eat better than they did in vivs ( my snakes only given as the example as I am familiar with them in both ) And I think you underestimate just how stubborn bp's can be if they do not like their environment. For decades everyone swore they were dodgy eaters in captivity - there is a reason we have as many keepers as we do posting their snakes eat ok. The snakes didn't change, the husbandry did.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

I won't say that tubs are cruel at all.

SDA, you say you are against tubs but would never bash people who keep their snakes in them. I agree with that except people who keep their snakes in tubs regularly bash and make people feel bad for keeping their snakes in tanks. Like Deborah said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I've even seen people who have on point husbandry with tanks be talked down on.

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This is sadly true - many ways work for all the various snakes out there. We have a narrower focus on what we recommend precisely because it will give fussy snakes the best chances of a good start and the more robust ones won't care and eat anyway. ;) Once you can read your animals well enough there is little problem with mixing things up as long as you are prepared to deal with any problems that pop up.

Tolerance wouldn't hurt the community in this regard but, since we normally get people joining because they have a problem, we do over emphasise the basic model as we do not yet know the users capabilities. We'll work on it. :cool:


del

I don't like glass tanks AT ALL. Tubs make it 1000x easier and are more beneficial to the snake.