Opinions On Breeding Male Normal BCI (Aberrant) From A Business Standpoint?

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Originally Posted by chip07

Hypo motley female and a normal male. Would be 1/4 motley 1/4 Hypo 1/4 hypo motley and 1/4 normal.

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The hypo and motley genes are allelic in boas, so you would end up with 50% hypo and 50% motley.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The hypo and motley genes are allelic in boas, so you would end up with 50% hypo and 50% motley.

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Never heard that one. Interesting. Probably since they aren't recessive so people don't mention it. Or it might be since I'm not a motley fan and wasn't paying attention lol

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The hypo and motley genes are allelic in boas, so you would end up with 50% hypo and 50% motley.

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Wow... No kidding? No normals, huh? I think we have a winner! :)

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The hypo and motley genes are allelic in boas, so you would end up with 50% hypo and 50% motley.

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Now this I didn't know. Mainly because I don't work with, nor particularly care for the motley gene.

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Originally Posted by snakequeen74

Now this I didn't know. Mainly because I don't work with, nor particularly care for the motley gene.

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Im feeling like the motley gene is getting picked on now since I said the same thing lol. I only have the one motley since I want an eclipse.

Also Diem has some beautiful motleys she just made available. Not a fan of the gene but those could change my mind.

Since we are talking about this from a business standpoint you need to figure out what your expenses and bottom line are going to be. Let's for example look at the low end snakes at $40 each, depending on what kind of snake it is and how old it is you will get more or less eggs. A boa can have between 10 and 65 young, a ball python from 3 to 11 eggs, and retics up to 90! Let's look at a boa and an average clutch of 25 eggs. If they all hatch and you can sell them at $40 each that's $1,000 per year per female snake. Don't forget to factor in the male as well since he is a non-producer and with boas you may have a significant number of females that don't lay every year.

From that number you have to subtract your feed costs, bedding costs, and if you are doing the work yourself the time is free but if you scale up then you'll have to hire employees and that costs money. Don't forget rent for the building and heat / electricity / trash service / internet. If you are breeding in your basement and doing all the work yourself all of this is basically free besides the bedding and feed (maybe other small things like rubber gloves, trash bags, disinfectant, spray bottles, etc..). Other big expenses will be advertising, and boxing / shipping snakes, booth setups at shows, etc...

A good business person will look at each expense and try to come up with ways to cut costs. For example, I started out buying all my rodents from the pet shop but quickly found it wasn't cost effective for a large collection. So now I raise all my own rodents in an ARS rack system. It was a significant expense up front but saves a lot of time breeding and caring for them and my rats really seem to like the rack system, they are safe and secure and have plenty of water and food and are kept clean and dry. Most people breeding rats are buying wood chips or wood / paper pellets as a substrate. I switched to free shredded paper from work, it cuts my rodent costs in half!

Also, I prefer to use coconut husk substrate for my snakes, but most breeders now are switching over to newspaper or just plain old butcher paper. It takes more time to clean with paper but I imagine the money savings would be huge. But that's not an expense I'm willing to cut, I like the humidity and odor absorbing quality of coconut husk and accept the high price I pay (it reduces the labor cost and that's hard to calculate since I do everything myself). However, I can still cut costs and buy coconut husk by the pallet and cuts my costs by 50%, just have to come up with the initial $1,000 for the pallet! But I figure that pallet would last me three years, so that's a reasonable expense for me.

Even keeping all of that in mind I see some of the big breeders losing money on some of their projects and selling some snakes at a loss. But over all they come out way ahead. Personally I don't think you have to make a profit on every snake you sell, you just need to make enough money to keep the business going.

Also from a business standpoint both hypo and motley single-gene animals are very common, much like pastel, spider, lesser, Mohave, etc. in ball pythons. Also from the discussion above motleys don't get much love because the super form is lethal, though motley in combinations with other genes makes for some cool critters.

Personally I wouldn't breed a common normal BCI male or female unless something about that particular animal's color or pattern was being used to enhance a long-term project, as too many buyers look at cheap animals as disposable or not worth spending the money to set up and keep properly.

If you're going to make a go of breeding snakes as a business, then produce what other keepers aren't.

@cchardwick - The main cost I am concerned about is rats. Currently, I only have 12 snakes (of which only 2 are adults) and it is already getting fairly expensive to feed them. Originally, I had started preparing to breed my own and I planned on having that going already, but I ended up putting that on hold until I figure out how I am going to go about keeping the smell out of my house (possibly an exhaust fan in a basement window or something). I get really good deals on frozen rats from a guy locally, so the trade-off of not having to deal with breeding my own is still worth it for the time being. But, once babies start popping out in a few short months and I need to start having live available to get them eating, that's where i'm going to run into problems...

This is whole new subject of it's own, but what do you guys think about breeding rats in a garage from spring through fall? I haven't actually calculated everything, but it seems like if you timed everything right you could have plenty of live babies available throughout the traditional hatching season every year and also have plenty left to grow up and freeze to help get through the winter months. I have 2 large garages, but to breed rats year round in them I would have to heat them 24/7. So, the additional huge cost of my monthly gas bill sky rocketing would definitely not be worth it...

As far as substrate goes, I use newspaper for all of my snakes. Personally, I think it's perfect (aside from not retaining moisture for very long). The snakes don't get all dirty and it doesn't get all over the floor, it's basically free and it's no problem at all to switch the snakes out into a fresh clean tub once or twice a week. I also feel like there is much less of a chance of urine building up and bacteria and mold becoming a problem. With actual substrate, I don't see how it's possible to ever get all of the urine out of it and it's pretty expensive. And, not to mention, it greatly reduces the amount of room the snakes have to explore. I definitely have to get a humidifier for my snake room before winter, though. I've also been considering using moss instead of crumpled up newspaper for my Bloods and Short Tails to help retain moisture longer. Do you guys know how well the tropical moss generally retains moisture with a lot of airflow? Anyway, this is also another whole topic of it's own. But, from a business standpoint, newspaper definitely cuts down on a major cost. Also, these are only my opinions. I'm just a nOOb... lol You guys are the wise ones! :)

@chip07 - Grrr! Damn you for reminding me about the Eclipse! lol I'm never going to have any money again, am I? :( When I originally started researching Boa mutations and deciding which ones would be my favorites to work with the Eclipse was my very first choice! I got sidetracked with Moonglows and sorta forgot about them. Now, I am rethinking my plans again... Personally, I really like the Motleys, but if i'm going to go through the time and expense of raising up a Motley it would be much more worthwhile in the long run to be growing up a Leopard (which, I also like a lot) as well instead of planning on just putting her with a normal. Maybe I need to come to terms with just keeping my normal boy as a pet... The Eclipse is indeed just a Motley x Leopard, right? I'm guessing there is only a very small chance of getting an Eclipse, though, right? Wouldn't most of the offspring be Motley Het Leopards?

@bcr229 - I agree completely with everything you stated!

With regards to Motleys, I have had an idea for a possible world's first with that gene for awhile, but i'm not exactly sure how to go about it. I will start a new topic for that, which you guys might find interesting...

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Let's look at a boa and an average clutch of 25 eggs.

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I'm really sorry but this is bothering me... boas are live-bearers.

In the early 2000's I wholesaled a large litter of normals for $15/ea in lots of 10. Didn't make any money but it paid the food costs for that year.

OP - the hypo gene itself can make funky patterns. Boa patterns are highly variable and can be inheritable characteristics, so there is a slightly higher chance an aberrant adult will product aberrant babies.
Good luck with whatever you decide! Good advise was given and I don't want to simply repeat it.
:)