yet another 'my bp is not eating' thread

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Originally Posted by jdax

I am perfectly willing to make changes. When I first started out keeping reptiles, I had a lot of problematic husbandry issues, and after receiving advice on other herp forums / message boards / sub reddits, I made a lot of significant changes and improvements. She is no longer on incredibly awful aspen, she is no longer in a glass aquarium, she is no longer eating prey that is too small for her / prey that is not nutritious (mice). I got rid of inaccurate and unsafe stick on analogue thermometers / hygrometers and got more accurate and more safe ones. Moving her from an aquarium to half of a T8 was the advice of multiple people on multiple other forums full of people who keep many BP's as well as other snakes. I was willing to make modifications to my glass tank while waiting for my AP cage. These modifications were not aesthetically pleasing (saran wrap over the lid / foam board over the sides) but I did them anyways because I prioritize the health and safety of my pets.

If you want to hurl insults at me, demean me, and act with hostility towards me because I made informed choices that differ from your opinion, I guess that speaks to the kind of person you are. Since you are a super moderator, I guess that speaks to the character of these forums. I was warned that this forum was full of misguided and ill-informed herpers, but I was hoping for a fifth opinion on what is going on. The other people were correct about this forum. Anyone who thinks that aspen is a viable choice for a substrate for a ball python is not someone I want to assist me. To keep aspen mold free, it would need to be changed at least 3 times a week. I am not going to be stressing my BP out and messing with her 3 times a week. It is not that I am lazy and don't want to clean her enclosure. I check the water and look for waste every day. It is that aspen is a poor choice for a high humidity snake. It might be perfectly fine for corn snakes or other snakes that do not have high humidity needs, but for BP's it is sub-optimal. I do not see how putting my BP onto sub-optimal substrate, and then bothering her three times a week to change it would actually help her get eating.

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Yep willing to listen so long you hear what you want to hear sadly pretty typical.

It's not about my opionion, it's about proven facts, trust me if you were keeping animals the way I do you would fail so it's not about how I keep my animals or my opinion on how to keep them it's about what works to help YOUR snake.

Insulted really?

Food for the thoughtd, guidance and advice do not mean that you will hear what you want to hear, it means you will receive advice based on experience and what is known to work.

Again you don't have to listen it's YOUR snake.

Anyway good luck again.....I know rude ;)

I know it is not always what I want to hear, but the advice you gave was bad advice. I am allowed to disregard it as the bad advice it is. I did not want to hear that the $60 glass tank I got for my new baby was useless. I did not want to hear that the $10 humidity gauge I bought was useless. I did not want to hear that the $10 bag of aspen I bought was useless. But I went out the next day and did something about it because that's what responsible pet owners do. The people on reddit were firm, blunt, and to the point. But they provided facts, links, and recommendations without calling into question my commitment to doing the right thing. They did it without hostility, aggression, or abuse of moderator privileges. They were not about to hand hold, but they also didn't try to slap my hand or stick my nose in my snakes pooop. The consensus that has been reached in many parts of the BP community is that aspen isn't appropriate. You are the first person I've ever EVER seen in all of my internet searching that has suggested it aside from PetCo/Smart. When I visited ReptiCon and asked various breeders about their own husbandry, all of them said aspen was a no-go. When I went to a vivarium while I was out of town to just check out what they did, they didn't even sell aspen. If it works for you, whatever, but I've made an informed decision not to use it.

I've had other members PM me advice, and I am really thankful for that and will be trying what they suggested. I'll change my feeding times, I won't be trying the zombie dance, I'll be letting the rat get to room temperature in the same room as my enclosure, having it sit on top of it (with my cats safely locked outside of that room) so that she can smell it earlier and maybe decide she is hungry, and I'll be going down a prey size to see if that helps. I am really thankful for all the people who have PM'd me these tips and the ones who PM'd just to commiserate how stressful it is to have a BP that won't eat.

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Originally Posted by jdax

Additionally, my research has concluded in the fact that larger spaces are OK as long as you have enough clutter for them to feel invisible in their enclosure. I have done so with vines, multiple tight hides, and the privacy curtain which is used at night. This is advice from multiple other forums, all of which linked to detailed research about this.
If you have other advice, I am open to it, but on substrate and container size, she is not being moved.

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I would re-research your research...... Your animal is not eating or a reason and at that size it should be.
There are many well experienced keepers here, many that have been doing it for decades and Deb is one that is always on point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdax

If you want to hurl insults at me, demean me, and act with hostility towards me because I made informed choices that differ from your opinion, I guess that speaks to the kind of person you are. Since you are a super moderator, I guess that speaks to the character of these forums. I was warned that this forum was full of misguided and ill-informed herpers, but I was hoping for a fifth opinion on what is going on. The other people were correct about this forum. Anyone who thinks that aspen is a viable choice for a substrate for a ball python is not someone I want to assist me. To keep aspen mold free, it would need to be changed at least 3 times a week. I am not going to be stressing my BP out and messing with her 3 times a week. It is not that I am lazy and don't want to clean her enclosure. I check the water and look for waste every day. It is that aspen is a poor choice for a high humidity snake. It might be perfectly fine for corn snakes or other snakes that do not have high humidity needs, but for BP's it is sub-optimal. I do not see how putting my BP onto sub-optimal substrate, and then bothering her three times a week to change it would actually help her get eating.

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What insults or hostility? Please stop with the pity party and read what is posted, you can feel how you want but you might what to read a post for what it is and not adlib to what you want to envision it to be.
FYI aspen will mold if you keep it too wet but myself and many others don't have a problem with it and can usually get it last close to a month with spot cleanings before a substrate change. Also shredded doesn't seem to mold as quickly as flakes.


askhole (true definition)

those people who demand that you explain, prove, or provide evidence, or cites, etc, to an idea you are presenting... but then when you DO provide information to read, watch, listen to, they REFUSE (ignore-ance?) to review the information, because they were being DISHONEST about being open to the truth, or even willing to respectfully review the information which THEY DEMEANINGLY DEMANDED of you.

Very confused at the aspen hate-I only use it in the hognose cage now but used it for years in the ball pythons setup and have never seen it mold. High humidity doesn't equal wet substrate.

I used aspen for a long time. I don't any more, but I never once had mold...

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I would re-research your research...... Your animal is not eating or a reason and at that size it should be.
There are many well experienced keepers here, many that have been doing it for decades and Deb is one that is always on point.



What insults or hostility? Please stop with the pity party and read what is posted, you can feel how you want but you might what to read a post for what it is and not adlib to what you want to envision it to be.
FYI aspen will mold if you keep it too wet but myself and many others don't have a problem with it and can usually get it last close to a month with spot cleanings before a substrate change. Also shredded doesn't seem to mold as quickly as flakes.


askhole (true definition)

those people who demand that you explain, prove, or provide evidence, or cites, etc, to an idea you are presenting... but then when you DO provide information to read, watch, listen to, they REFUSE (ignore-ance?) to review the information, because they were being DISHONEST about being open to the truth, or even willing to respectfully review the information which THEY DEMEANINGLY DEMANDED of you.

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^^^Yup!^^^
Seriously, what's with people tonight?

A photo of your enclosure could help us get a feel of whether it needs more clutter or not, if you're going to keep her in the larger set up. My Bob is in a good sized bin right now, with a lot of clutter. It's definitely not 24"x24", but still larger than many snakes her size are kept in (under 150 grams).

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...3%2Fhh9Fnk.jpg

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Originally Posted by jdax

I was warned that this forum was full of misguided and ill-informed herpers, but I was hoping for a fifth opinion on what is going on. The other people were correct about this forum. Anyone who thinks that aspen is a viable choice for a substrate for a ball python is not someone I want to assist me.

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If you change your mind about the bolded bit, I'll be happy to assist too. It seems to me like you've got some preconceived notions about this forum that might be partially blocking your good advice receptors. You've already received plenty of good pointers from knowledgable folks so I'll just offer general advice, about researching and utilizing what you read. There might be 9 ways to skin a cat but if you try to use them all at the same time, you're just going to ruin the pelt. You're trying too hard to find the "best" solution.

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Originally Posted by John1982

If you change your mind about the bolded bit, I'll be happy to assist too. It seems to me like you've got some preconceived notions about this forum that might be partially blocking your good advice receptors. You've already received plenty of good pointers from knowledgable folks so I'll just offer general advice, about researching and utilizing what you read. There might be 9 ways to skin a cat but if you try to use them all at the same time, you're just going to ruin the pelt. You're trying too hard to find the "best" solution.

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Very well said.

Here's an article for you: http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2014/08...te/#more-10026

You may think aspen is a poor idea, but there are snakes that are sensitive to substrate changes. Some just won't eat on paper towels no matter how hard you try. It also may seem intuitive that if you have the right hides and enough clutter the size of the enclosure shouldn't matter, and in most cases it probably doesn't, but I can tell you that I've gotten plenty of problem eaters to feed better by switching to a smaller enclosure.

There's something about your snake's environment that it doesn't like and it's up to you to figure out what that is. How do you know that the changes you've already ruled out aren't exactly what your snake needs to start feeding again? If I were you, I would try whatever it takes to get my snake feeding again, even if it meant aspen in a tiny little plastic tub.

Now granted, it doesn't have to be aspen. I think coco coir would work fine if you let it dry out for a few days. Yes, the humidity is very high at first, but it dries out like anything else. You could probably even go over it with a blow drier if you wanted. Maybe all your snake needs is that extra layer of security. If all else fails, going back to what the snake was on/in before is usually a good bet.