Updated allelic list

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Originally Posted by rufretic

What about mahogany for the 8 ball complex? It makes the suma.

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I don't think mahogany is in the 8 ball complex.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufretic

What about mahogany for the 8 ball complex? It makes the suma.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I don't think mahogany is in the 8 ball complex.

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It's not... Cinnamon sumas are a thing


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kxr

It's not... Cinnamon sumas are a thing


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So im a little confused then, I'm just going off of wobp, if you do mahogany x mahogany, you get a super that is a black snake that they are calling suma? 8 ball complex is just a. Black snake right, or does it mean something else? I'm still just trying to learn all these morphs myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufretic

So im a little confused then, I'm just going off of wobp, if you do mahogany x mahogany, you get a super that is a black snake that they are calling suma? 8 ball complex is just a. Black snake right, or does it mean something else? I'm still just trying to learn all these morphs myself.

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The phenotypic expression is really irrelevant. What makes two morphs allelic is that when bred together they can never reproduce themselves and will instead always produce one of the two morphs that make it. Acting like a super. So for example a black pastel het red axanthic will always produce either black pastel or het red but never the combo the way something like a bumblebee could.

I won't confuse you with explaining the genetics too much but essentially you can't have a snake with three alleles from the same complex. So, a red axanthic black pastel will never exist. By this same logic since a cinnamon suma exists mahogany is not in the eight ball complex.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufretic

So im a little confused then, I'm just going off of wobp, if you do mahogany x mahogany, you get a super that is a black snake that they are calling suma? 8 ball complex is just a. Black snake right, or does it mean something else? I'm still just trying to learn all these morphs myself.

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Two animals looking somewhat the same does not necessarily mean that they are genetically. There are quite a few ways to make a "white" snake with black eyes. For example Super Yellow Belly and Super Fire. If you cross those two you would get 100% Fire Yellowbellies which are not white. They are not allelic so it would be possible to have a super yellow belly super fire.

A suma is a super mahagony. It would be possible to have an animal that is both a suma and a super black pastel.

Ah KXR beat me to the punch again...

Thanks guys, I completely misunderstood what the 8 ball complex ment. I thought it was just a nick name for a morph that's super form was black because I noticed a couple of them had a black super version. After looking at more of the pictures of the super mohagony, it doesn't even look like it's actually a sold black snake either way lol. I need to read more and do a lot more research before I try to help out with this stuff. Thank you to everyone that is putting stuff like this together, it's super helpful and a great learning tool.

Red axanthics are far from all black snakes also