Alright, Loki is a PIG!

This is what someone told me some time long ago. A dog does not know when its next meal is coming. If they where in the wild they would hunt and eat as much as they could cause they dont know where or when there next meal is going to be. The same thing Dogs cant realize that they have a meal coming the next day no matter what so they over stuff themselves. All we have to do for us is to look in the fridge and say i got enough food to last a week. We dont wonder when our next meal will be coming or any of that cause we all ready know so we dont need to over stuff ourselves and worry about our next meal. Now there is also the factor of exercise and all to tell if your skinny or fat or where you live i dont think any of us are starving but there are people who are this is just a general thing and just focusing on those factors like i said before a lot of other things come into play when it comes to trying to figure out how much is to much. Now you can overfeed from what i read your snake is fine as long as its skin is not showing from under the scales and it can still move around very easily. Now i want to get my snake as big as possible without it being over weight cause i plan on doing some small breeding in a few years.

Tigerlily,
I do not disagree with your statement. Before you try to feed like I do, I think a schedule has to be established. You have to get to know your snakes habits. But I think once you do, feed your snake until it is full. A snake is no where like a dog when it comes to feeding/eating so that is bad comparision. This is based on my adult BP (King Tut). He is a rather large male BP but he is not fat instead rather strong and healthy. I would not ever recommend power feeding/force feeding. I only offer what the snake feels it needs and base its next meal off that. If you notice I'm feeding jumbo rats first then offering mice to fill him up, I don't want the little guy to be malnourished. Also I never will offer my snakes more food until they poop. When you feed a specific limit you are also limiting potential growth and nutrients your snake may need. I don't care how big my snakes get as long as they are healthy. Here is just another example of what I'm saying. My corn snake is eating 2 mice every five days (thats about her digestion period for her to poop). There was time when she was eating 2 medium/large rats every week but she was also a juvenile and growing. She is now an adult and sheds about every 2-3 months, so she is no longer needing or wanting any excess hence the reason she is now on 2 mice. Do what works for you, as long as your snake is heathly you are not doing anything wrong.

My prevous statement goes for snakes aswell. The factor of metabolism exercise and all that does effect how much they will eat and when. Im just saying that any animal naturally wants the most food they can get cause they dont know when there next meal is going to be like we do. Now i also agree that force feeding and power feeding is wrong and I will never practice it.

O.K. I am a bit confused now, I know that Adam is a breeder, therefore, I must go for experience at this point, NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE<<<<PLEASE>>>>>For I don't know the background of any of the other posts. Having said that. As far as the size of the food I offer Loki, I have seen mice that were smaller than the hopper that I fed him today. Will it make a difference that the hopper was from a rat? I just am not for sure of the terms for food -vs- the species of food. I just went in and asked for two hoppers, and I know they took them out of a tank that also housed a big white rat, that I assumed was the mother. Also, as for the size of the hopper, Loki was able to take down the larger hopper, but it took him probably a good minute (once it was dead) to swallow. The smaller one went right down. The food size does cause a very very slightly noticible lump in his belly, but not too big. The larger hopper seemed to be the same size as his body, of course that was fuzzy fur and all, I am sure his body was a bit smaller. Also, the place I got him was feeding hoppers.

I just don't want to push the size thing, or malnurish him. Everywhere I read in here tells me not to push size and just allow more quantity so that is what I am trying to do.

I do thank all for the advice, it all makes sence to me. SO keepitcomming! I am a sponge, an information Sponge! lol

Cheers
Ray

It will make a difference if it was a rat or mouse. Not particulary for nutrition value but for size value. A hopper mouse will weigh the same as a rat fuzzy. I doubt that it was a rat 'hopper' because I have never heard rats refered to as 'hoppers'....usually the same life stage in rats is refered to as a rat 'pup'.

And I would go with Adam advice on this one too.....thats the way that I also believe things should be handled.

EDIT: Here go to www.rodentpro.com .....click on products and select mice or rats....it gives a great breakdown of sizes, ages, and names of rats and mice.

Dude thanks for the link. Judging by the sight on the mice, What I fed today were more like Weenlings, or weeners, or what ever they were called the next step above hoppers. I suppose these were hoppers that had not been relocated yet but needed to be. They even were drinking and eating onthier own. I know it sounds a bit wierd, but I let them have a little bit of water and a last meal on the way home. Wanted them to be good and plump for Loki......Muhhaaaa!

oh ya....if they were live mice you can easily tell if they are hoppers.....because hoppers tend to hop....ha ha...they jump from anything...so if they were larger and did not hop around....then they were probably weanlings.... Glad to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Forrest

When you feed a specific limit you are also limiting potential growth and nutrients your snake may need.

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Forrest,

How do you know specifically how much nutrients a ball python needs? How do you know that 1 small rat or large mouse a week is not enough food for an adult ball python and that everything else it consumes nutrient wise is not just being passed as waste?

Is the statement above just your opinion or do you have some type of direct evidence to back it up?

I certainly respect however you choose to feed your snake, but in my experience, feeding smaller food items does not limit growth in any way and by the way my snakes look, breed, and lay eggs, I'm quite certain that they are not lacking in the nutrient department either.

-adam

Not wierd at all Ray. We are currently just starting to breed our own mice and rats so we still buy feeders weekly from our pet store. We bring them home and put them in a cage and feed and water the heck out of them for 2 sometimes 3 days. I figure coming out of a large feeder group in the pet store they've had to struggle to get enough so a few days of good eats at my house only makes a nicer meal for our balls.

Our 6 month old is about 25 inches long, our 18 month old is only a few inches longer (but has been consistently underfed). They both eat adult mice either 1 or 2 every Saturday night. These are not huge adult mice tho or retired breeders (which are even bigger apparently). These are just young adult feeders that don't leave a huge bump in the snake and are consumed easily and relatively quickly or in poor Punkin's case....gulped down rapidly (poor hungry baby).

I'm not experienced enough to comment on mice vs rats or when over-feeding/under-feeding occurs other than to say that feeding what you can get consistently and of a high quality in your community and that your snake will show a strong and regular feeding response to is what I'd go with. If you have a content snake that is shedding and growing as it should and ready to eat each week then I personally think that's pretty fine. Adam's stated many times he has adults that are both rat feeders and mice feeders and they do equally well and you just can't argue with success I figure.

My only question after reading this thread is about not feeding until they poop first? My balls don't always pass feces between weekly feedings and I've never worried about it much as they eventually do poop with no apparent troubles (and it's often a whopper!). Am I doing something wrong here in my newbie-hood?


~~Joanna~~

By no means have I ever been concerned about limiting food until they poop. Mine go every 3 weeks or so, but if it had been like 2 months I might try a soak if I was concerned about constipation. I don't see a correlation there. Of course that's just me too. :D

Forrest I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think I'm in any way limiting my snake's growth. I do regular weight and length checks and I am very happy with the gains. I'm glad that works for you but it seems excessive feeding to me. But I'm no expert either so.... :weirdface