i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

In my collection, I have 2 albino spiders, spider double het ghost/orange ghost, bumblebee, honeybee and stingerbee. My other wobbler is pastel woma. I call them my handicap kids.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

their wobble is honestly depressing when it's so bad; it stems from the fact that i've seen so many videos of sweet spider morphs struggling so hard to eat. obvi that's just my opinion.

in my mind, i feel i'm promoting the morph, proving they're in demand, and allowing unreputable breeders to keep producing these babies with very terrible dispositions. or bad breeders sell to other breeders, and buying from the other breeder continues the cycle. idk, i'm conflicted.

please tell me i'm wrong. please tell me spiders/morphs with very bad wobbles are rare and they're even more rarely sold. i think they're beautiful and what they add to other morphs is awesome!

i have this whole "breeding tree" i'm making/dreaming of and i have specifically excluded all spider morphs. that's where my thoughts come from.

any insight into this is greatly appreciated! just a mini rant, but i'm also fairly ignorant to these kinds of "defects" (i say with quotes bc i know most spiders live happy, healthy lives!).

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Well I've only ever had one spider morph ... My Caramel Albino Spider who is simply perfect . Not a hint of any shake or wobble or anything , ravenous eater , lovely and calm . This is him a year or so ago but he's probably about 1kg now .




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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Without stepping up on a podium (OK, maybe a little), most people with this opinion have never owned a single Spider morph. Yet, at the same time, are more than ready to get on their soapbox and preach about the issues they have with the morph and anyone working with it. It's their right to do so (and it is recently becoming trendy to do so), but you'll have to forgive me if you catch me shaking my head and smiling. Simply stated, Spiders thrive and breeders working with them have consciences. If they felt that these issues were detrimental (or common) enough to have a negative impact on their quality of life, they wouldn't continue to breed them - that's been proven many times over with other morphs with more serious issues.

For some more reading on this subject, here's a fantastic article written by one of the most respected breeders in the hobby: https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...spiders-silly/.

Best regards,
Eric

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Thanks Eric. You always have some great insight and knowledge to share. I actually read that article just recently and it changed my thoughts on the spider morph as well. Great read. Actually, I shouldn't say it changed my thoughts, I should say that the article opened my eyes and educated me while dispelling some of the "trendy" myths that I too had been hearing.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I don't see any issue in taking the stance to stay away from the spider gene even if you have never owned one.

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Originally Posted by DreDeuce

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the OP's pre-post mindset.

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Thank you both. I have zero issues with these thoughts. Heck - I even support them. My goal is simply to educate and elevate. There are much more petty reasons that I don't work with some morphs (based on appearance alone!). For any one of us to judge or condemn each other based on these choices is counter-productive to the hobby. There really is something for everyone here and we are all better for it. :gj:

I own 3 animals carrying the spider gene. Both the banana spider moj enchi male and bumblebee female are great, eat well and are just sweet snakes. I can barely see the wobble when they're about to strike the prey.

The third one tho is a bit different (spider leopard). He's more or less a rescue, got it almost free from someone not taking very good care.
He's a bad spinner with a disastrous aim, always keeping his head crooked and often upside down. He's a 2013 male and only weights 800gr, got him to eat a couple times before the winter, now he's going trough a 3 months long fast.

Honestly I feel sorry for him from time to time. That said, only a small percentage of the spiders do show such bad symptoms and they still thrive and even breed.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Well I've only ever had one spider morph ... My Caramel Albino Spider who is simply perfect . Not a hint of any shake or wobble or anything , ravenous eater , lovely and calm . This is him a year or so ago but he's probably about 1kg now .




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i see babies like this and i'm just blown away. WHAT a stunner. spider really is an incredible gene.

i really appreciate the discussion happening here. everyone is allowed their own opinion, but i felt mine was founded on very little information. of course, when i have questions about BPs, i come here first because of the wonderful people.

spiders are something i plan to keep an eye out for now, and of course if i ever decide to own a spider morph i plan on buying from a great breeder (and i'd love to own snakes by some of you guys down the road!!!!!).

thanks everyone for sharing your opinions, and keep sharing them!

In my opinion the rare chance that an animal has a severe wobble is not worth missing the opportunity of working with these beautiful genes. I do however think that the ethical thing to do is avoid breeding any wobbly morphs together. I currently own a beautiful spider that seems to be perfectly normal. Someday I'd also love to add hidden gene woma, spotnose and champagne into my collection. I will do my best to avoid any breedings that combine those genes in effort to reduce the chances of producing severe wobble animals.

I've heard spotnose is less severe then the other genes mentioned and even has a viable super but I'm still going to avoid combining it with other wobble genes and producing the super.

One question I have is what do you do with an animal with a really bad wobble?
Is it right for breeders to cull those animals or is it there responsibility to try to keep the animal alive despite a potentially low quality of life? I feel like it would be more ethical to cull these animals but I have no first hand experience with a bad wobble animal and how bad it actually effects them.


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Originally Posted by Aste88

Honestly I feel sorry for him from time to time. That said, only a small percentage of the spiders do show such bad symptoms and they still thrive and even breed.

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This is my issue with it honestly, that people are like, well only "some" of them are screwed up and wobbling all over so it's fine? 9/10 turn out fine but the last one is a trainwreck so let's play the odds and who cares about the bad ones because they aren't the majority? Clearly most of them live fine, but it's the ones who don't that concern me more, their lives matter just as much don't they? Idk, seems like a sad attitude to me but I don't breed. I try to stay out of the morph game entirely and wouldn't want a wobbly snake but maybe that's holdover from my other animals where reputable people aim to breed for the best and healthiest but bybs often go for defective flashy new stuff. I used to really like caramel albinos when I first got in the hobby until I found out they kink and that probably colored my attitude towards morphs a lot too.

I've produce hundreds of spiders and spider combos over the years. Out of those there have only been 3 that come to mind as being "Failure to thrive" issues. I can't however attribute that to the spider gene. We all make decisions about the genes that we choose to keep or breed. Is there some due diligence that come with breeding. Intentionally breeding for animals or combos that we know (with empirical information) are tragic failures, in my mind is irresponsible.