Craigslist Listing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trisnake

I understand this but I just feel that while there aren't many (if any) studies of the effects of pine oils on reptiles specifically, the multitude of other studies done on various species that conclude the detrimental effects of exposure make it relatively safe (for me at least) to assume it's not safe for cold-blooded animals either. At the very least, we don't know definitively whether it's safe or not, and that uncertainty combined with related research that it's unsafe for a vast variety of animals and the experiences of others just raises a bit of a red flag for me.

I get that it's a practice a lot of people use and that some people (perhaps most) have never experienced issues with pine shavings. I guess I'm just of the mind that just because they haven't had an issue yet doesn't mean they wont later on, or that perhaps things ARE occurring but just not being noticed or attributed to the pine oil. Long term low dose exposure to even mildly toxic materials can have detrimental effects much further down the road, decades even. Kind of like all these medications that are FDA approved safe after a 5 year study that causes cancer or other issues that develop maybe 15 or 20 years down the road. We just don't know, and it's hard to document the exact cause of the ailment in these situations because of the relatively short timeline we put on disease processes and the long timeline for the exposure to the possible causative agent.

Idk. I'm rambling. It's a "to each their own" situation, everyone keeps their snakes differently, but for me I interpret the evidence as pointing towards pine being unsafe, at the very least not optimal. I personally would never keep my snakes on pine simply because I don't even want there to be a possibility of their lifespans being shortened by a decision of mine. Just my 2 cents, I'll stick to aspen and newspaper ;) thanks for the link, it's an interesting read

---

Actually a lot of other things can contribute to life shortening that are much more common. The biggest thing being overfeeding. Probably 90% of the snakes kept are overfed and underexercised. They don't need to move or hunt. They just sit and eat every week. Add to this newspaper which is slick and doesn't allow any real griping so they lose muscle tone as well. I'm not sure if its true but I have heard a few people say that boas kept on newspaper for years start to "pancake" as in they lose muscle tone and cant keep that square shape as they have spent years having to try and flatten themselves out to try and get grip on newspaper.

Not sure if its true but I use shredded aspen for all my snakes and as soon as my last 2 bails run out, i'm going to switch over to ReptiChips as a lot of boa and retic guys I've talked to have said the stuff is awesome and Jmcrook is using it now for his retic and says the stuff is great and not dusty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

I'm not sure if its true but I have heard a few people say that boas kept on newspaper for years start to "pancake" as in they lose muscle tone and cant keep that square shape as they have spent years having to try and flatten themselves out to try and get grip on newspaper.

---

As someone that has kept boas for years and years on newspaper, I'll just say that is not true.
;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

Actually a lot of.... ...................;.........Add to this newspaper which is slick and doesn't allow any real griping so they lose muscle tone as well. I'm not sure if its true but I have heard a few people say that boas kept on newspaper for years start to "pancake" as in they lose muscle tone and cant keep that square shape as they have spent years having to try and flatten themselves out to try and get grip on newspaper.

..............................

---

Don't know how that urban legend got started, but I don't think that is physiologically possible. Now losing muscle tone due to serious lack of movement over time, yes. But morphing into a whole new shape or starting to, no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the_rotten1

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I've seen a lot worse on Craigslist. A lot of times people will post photos of snakes with stuck shed or loose skin. I once saw a snake who was kept in a tank with nothing but reptile carpet and a heat rock, poor thing. Sometimes I wonder how these poor babies survive such awful conditions.

---

There is a female BP up around my area in a 55gal tank with NO hides. Just a crap ton of wood climbing sticks, nothing else. Poor thing probably feels so exposed.