RIP Little Jake

Jeanne, I am so sorry you've had so much trouble with your beardies. I hadn't heard about the significance of the tail pattern, but will definitely keep that in mind if I get to the point of buying a dragon. Thanks to you and Sean for sharing that and possibly saving one of us some beardie trouble.

Dang, I wish I could find the whole article........ I know what I posted does not seem to be the entire article.......seems like there was more info when I read it before, because it was from a college's site.... think I am gona contact the person that wrote the article and see what else they have come up with.

Another thought, I realize that the blood lines here in the US are all pretty much related in some way, but I often wonder if more inbreeding (close lines) is not done not just to keep a certain "desirable" trait getting better.. but for the $ side of it, leaving conscenious breeding to fly out the window. For the life of me, I cant figure out, why, even though there are lots of breeders out there, the prices have to be so high. Would it not make sense that the market would become saturated, making prices go down? I know once I am in the position to breed, I am not going to make my prices so high that dragons sit around in my care because of the thier price tags attached, then again, I also have other ways of selling babies in a few local petshops (small ones) that friends own. I have watched many breeders online for awhile now, I noticed that many of them are still advertising the same babies they have had for sale for awhile, just older and a little lower priced because they seem to not move them so fast.. then there is also the price cut due to tail/toe nips and injuries.... and even thier prices can be substantially lower than a perfect baby, and I have seen quite a few with better coloring than their perfect counter parts. Leaves me with alot to think about though... and more time to watch the market. I also did the math part of it- say if a breeder pays $150 for a particular mom and they had the male... and Mom lays 10 eggs the first clutch, all hatch and prove to be great coloring, and worth say $100... thats $1000 profit minus the price for the mom, plus food to feed all babies... then another clutch comes along, and maybe another..... looks to me like the public gets raped. They get thier $ back many times over on the parent/parents plus cost to maintain the babies. I may be wrong about this, but I dont see the justification in paying HUGE amounts of $ for one animal. Now I also realize some of these ppl, that is what they do for a living, but jeez... are they trying to get rich or are they doing it for the love of what they produce so others may enjoy pretty babies too? I personally, will not be breeding to get rich or make alot of $, in fact, it will be done out of the love for the species. And if I can produce babies that are not just healthy, but nice looking for others that want those babies at a reasonable price, I will be happy.

Jeanne Thanks for the article and though there may be some basis in certain breeders lines for the tail band to be an indicator I dont think its a good way to judge all dragons I would be more inclined to believe the theory if there were DNA tests to back it up .. after all this woman is a professor of Biology with all the resources she needs. At this point I think the best bet is to make sure your getting a good solid healthy animal from an honest source
I agree there are a few out there that have really high prices but taking every thing in to consideration $125-$150 is a fair asking price for a well established animal I have spent over $200 on feed and supplies alone on one ,week and a half old clutch.. they go through crickets like mad at this age plus greens pellets ( did i mention crickets are crazy priced these days!!) If your doing it for a living you have to consider utility bills and atleast a small degree of proffit and there is alot of time involved .. feeding 3 times daily cleaning daily and misting 3-4 times daily then makeing sure they they are all doing well
I Have seen it happen again and again with the reptile market people dont want to pay the the price it takes to raise a healthy captive bred animal and choose the farmed fresh out of the egg unestablished babies (most of what you will find in pet shops). Ball pythons are a prime example of this if it werent for the morph market they would be almost worthless to a full time breeder and when was the last time you saw captive born and bred green iguanas? Im not trying to start an argument or any thing its just my opinion on the matter I have been breeding reptiles of differnt sorts for a long time now and Know that it isnt easy to make money doing it especially after all the proper equipment food and supplies have been paid for

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Originally Posted by RobertCoombs

Jeanne Thanks for the article and though there may be some basis in certain breeders lines for the tail band to be an indicator I dont think its a good way to judge all dragons I would be more inclined to believe the theory if there were DNA tests to back it up .. after all this woman is a professor of Biology with all the resources she needs. At this point I think the best bet is to make sure your getting a good solid healthy animal from an honest source

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Yeah I agree about the DNA tests to back it up.. I did contact the author of the article for all data so I can look it over, she got back to me and said that she never wrote up all her data, that it was info she collected via shows over a 3 year period...... I think I am right about the 3 year period... I would still be interested in real data on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobertCoombs

I agree there are a few out there that have really high prices but taking every thing in to consideration $125-$150 is a fair asking price for a well established animal I have spent over $200 on feed and supplies alone on one ,week and a half old clutch.. they go through crickets like mad at this age plus greens pellets ( did i mention crickets are crazy priced these days!!) If your doing it for a living you have to consider utility bills and atleast a small degree of proffit and there is alot of time involved .. feeding 3 times daily cleaning daily and misting 3-4 times daily then makeing sure they they are all doing well
I Have seen it happen again and again with the reptile market people dont want to pay the the price it takes to raise a healthy captive bred animal and choose the farmed fresh out of the egg unestablished babies (most of what you will find in pet shops). Ball pythons are a prime example of this if it werent for the morph market they would be almost worthless to a full time breeder and when was the last time you saw captive born and bred green iguanas? Im not trying to start an argument or any thing its just my opinion on the matter I have been breeding reptiles of differnt sorts for a long time now and Know that it isnt easy to make money doing it especially after all the proper equipment food and supplies have been paid for

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I see your point, and agree to a point too.. I just wonder why the market is not saturated forcing prices down, or the amount of breeders down...justifying the prices a bit more. I know it is not cheap to feed a baby or even several, I know, I feed alot of cricket eaters here and go through lots of crix... about 4000 plus a month.. and thats buying my crix at $14 for 1000. I guess there are times I really have problems justifying cost of certain animals, recently, I was in touch with a friend of mine, who bought a dragon from a breeder online, and she paid a pretty penny for it, only to get it and find out it is not socialized at all. It eats well... but I think for a dragon to be well established, it should include a bit of socailization... now I am not saying that every dragon is gonna be docile.. but since the breeder must go to their cages and feed and clean, it would seem they make time to socailized the animals a bit. I was looking at a dragon this same breeder has.. but am leary on messing with it because obviously, they are not socialized at all, and I cannot even justify paying the price they want with my hubby on an animal that lacks in even basic socialization.

I plan on being very careful with buying dragons from now on, the experience I have had lately, has me jaded. I guess I should have trusted my insinct in the first place when I could not find anything on the BOI. Lesson learned.

Now continues my wait and search for the right male for my little female Emily.. and the right female for Oscar.

Saturation is going to be a hard thing to do when it comes to beardies I think. thousands of new herpers join the ranks every day ( alot of them teenagers) and brearded are one of the known best beginner lizards and alot of moms dont like snakes
As far as socialization it is a bit strange about your friends dragon My little ones climb right up on my fingers allready when im feeding and are taking repcal pellets from my fingers