Boa Cage Dimensions-- Climbing?

I would go with AP T8 all the way. They are by far the most reasonably priced and quality cages you will find. Super easy to put together, and their customer service is known to be great. I personally do not give climbing space to my snakes, but that is also a consequence of the number of animals that i have. I simply do not have the space to warrant climbing space. All my boas are happy and healthy without it. Others on here like you have seen allow their animals to climb, which is great, just not my system.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

Well the locality of my CA is muddled; I asked the breeder and she told me that she had imported his parents from different sources and only for size and pattern (my dude was the humble "normal" of the litter) so the only accurate description is just Central American. When i take him out he loves crawling along railings and going straight up my floor lamp (see below), so ideally i want to build him both a vertical "tree" and a horizontal "branch".


(Lamp was unplugged)

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...19381731_o.jpg

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beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

Appreciate the input. Agreed they will live fine without climbing. I have the space and would like to allow for climbing. I'm just surprised some specimens will exhibit climbing as GIOs did in a shorter height than I expected, very cool I think. Just shows you how much I know about being a snake! :D

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Originally Posted by viper69

beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

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Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

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I read an article once (The veracity of which i am in no position to confirm) that claimed that Surinam and Guyana are, for the most part, just marketing terms since the two countries share a border and therefore there is no reason boas from either would be genetically distinct from the other. The theory was that the exceptionally beutiful ones from the cheaper market locale were sold as being from the more expensive (i forget which is which). Its seems logical, although the border is marked by a pretty big river, so i feel like there may be geographically isolated populations after all. Seems hard scientific field work would be necessary to prove or disprove any of that. Another thread i was reading today (you all may have been contributors?) mentioned that DNA identification may soon become more accessible, which would really clear up most doubts for those breeders who utilized it.

But we were talking about cage height right?? :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by viper69

beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

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I do think he's a little beauty! I need to update my gallery one of these days, or if i'm feeling really indulgent i might just start a photo thread. Though not as informative as some of the posts, i love looking at everybody's pictures. (one of my favorites below)
and i feel like climbing must be "fun" for them, or satisfying, or whatever they feel - i try to let mine explore, but he's so small that there are lots of places he can get into from which i could not get him out.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...31664526_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

GIO, i had to put my phone down and boot up my computer to get a better look at those pics. Beutiful work! what is the source of blue light?
I am in the mental pre-visualisation planning stage (day-dreaming) of a new enclosure and have been grappling with dimensions. I want to go tall b/c i know my boa likes to climb and perch but do you think there is such a thing as too tall? I'm thinking 24" for my little dwarf boa, and 36" for a future full-size boa. With appropriate climbing structures, do you think they would actually use that space? I'm happy to build it, but i don't want a big empty box of fake plants with my snake just chilling at ground level.

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I have found a lot of this depends on how you feed your boa.

There are some variables, but when it comes down to it, a properly fed BC should become active, climb, forage and may search for ambush areas within the cage. These behaviors are nothing out of the ordinary and in the wild even the big ones will head up into the trees. There is a good YouTube video of a BC taking a howler monkey up rather high in the canopy.

In my situation, I have found my BC will NOT show much activity if food is always present, always the same size and always given on a set schedule.

I don't have a "true schedule" but things seem to be working out where feedings are monthly depending on the prey size of the previous meal. I last fed my BC on April 16th. In the past 2 weeks, he has been out and about nightly up on his perches with his head facing the floor of the cage.

He isn't starving, as its nearly impossible to starve a BC, actually he isn't overly hungry just yet. I'm planning to feed next weekend and am deciding if I will use a smaller prey item like a quail or rat or use a rabbit.

Anyhow, that's off topic a bit, however the point to this is, I feel most BCs will use the options provided to them and display the natural behaviors they would show in the wild if there is a reason or two for them to move.

We are dealing with animals that are hardwired to survive very long periods without food. Year round feeding, constantly digesting, passing and starting the cycle all over isn't part of their evolution. With that in mind, if you make them "Fat and Happy" you will probably see a snake that has no reason to move.

Obviously other things can factor in here, but IMO if you build a useable, 3 foot tall cage and feed your BC the way Vincent Russo and Gus Rentfro advocate, I would expect to see your snake using the space.

When I want to be entertained by my BC, I start watching him when he TELLS me its time to eat!

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Originally Posted by viper69

Much appreciated the info provided including the pics, I'm going to include this maker as a possibility now! I love your animals, gorgeous.

You have given me some additional considerations that I had not initially considered.

How did you determine the proper distance between the RHP and basking perch before buying the cage?


I had no idea. I built it and adjusted the perches as I saw fit. I lowered them at one point to keep him further from the panel, and I also added my real branches. I update and upgrade if I think I have a new or better idea.

What I meant by RHP being flush:


I've seen the RHPs mounted into the cage's ceiling, and thus it protrudes downward. I haven't seen a setup yet where the RHP is mounted in such a way that the RHP's panel is flush w/the cage's ceiling, that is it's even/level with the plane of the ceiling. Hmm. LIKE fluorescent lights in the ceiling of an office building, they don't typical protrude out of the ceiling, the are recessed! That's the word I was looking for.

OK, I see what you meant about "flush". It sounds good, but if you ever want to stack a cage that would be an issue. I'm also not sure if the manufacturer of the RHP would recommend it. Maybe look into it.


How bright are the Arcadia lights? That is, have you felt your animals thought they were too bright and needed a dimmer? It's so hard to tell w/pics on the internet instead of in person!


Not as bright as they appear in my photos. It is pretty mellow moon light. I have an open shutter on the camera so people can see into the cages when I snap those.

Maybe this helps but I doubt it.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC01281.jpg

I really like the lights.

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I think if you want to make a display you are on the right track.

Keep in mind, I'm showing you my system and as Josh stated and I'll agree with that statement; There are MANY ways of doing this.

If you have a big collection, or need an efficiency system, my gig is not what you'd want. I have 3 snakes and all are in display cages. I could maybe deal with one more but after that cleaning and looking for space in the room would cause issues.

Pro-Line and AP are excellent choices. I prefer HDPE plastic and a single drop door. I can get my BIG branches and perches in and out quickly, use a dust pan and hand broom to scoop and dump old substrate and I can shop vac the whole thing out easily.

Prices are not vastly different when you factor in shipping. AP T-8 may be a bit less for a 12" cage, but you'll get 14" with the Pro-Line and shipping is included. It may be a closer comparison with the T-10.

Both are just fine IMO.

Think that should cover it.

Have fun with it. That's what the hobby is all about!

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

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Trust me I know. I have quite a few other exotics, the type that are far less defined as a hobby and many cases the taxonomy is unknown, unlike our snakes. We have specimens where all we know is the locality (assuming the paper work is accurate!!) and we never know the species in those cases, if we are lucky the genus. In some cases we have specimens where not even the genus is known, in fact, all we know is that it's an animal basically. No taxonomy at all.

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Originally Posted by Gio

If you have a big collection, or need an efficiency system, my gig is not what you'd want. I have 3 snakes and all are in display cages. I could maybe deal with one more but after that cleaning and looking for space in the room would cause issues.

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Thanks Gio. I have exactly 3 snakes. The above quote of yours is exactly how I feel and why I stopped at 3. If I get one more it will likely be an Amazon Basin morph.

Are you using one Arcadia light per cage? I appreciate that pic. I looked up some other images/videos and it appears they give off like that is about as intense as the small watt Moonlight bulbs we often see, ie not as bright as typical white light LEDs I have some blue LEDs, but they are computer lights and they are super bright.

Thanks for pointing out the stacking issue I would run into if the RHP was flush. I had overlooked that and will not do it, as I will likely stack another on top at some point.

I'm pretty sure I'm going with C. Northwest after listening to you now.