*Room Temperature and Enclosure Temperature (What are the Limits for the Room?)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies guys!

My classroom is in Foster City California (25 miles south of SF).

The lowest minimum temperature is 30 degrees F and the highest is 108 degrees but the average temperatures throughout the year range from 52 degrees F and 70 degrees F.

Unfortunately we no longer have a shop class at my school so the enclosure will have to be bought or donated.

I am also considering a corn snake which does have the benefit of being diurnal and more active. The reason I am more interested in ball pythons, despited them being more difficult to take care of, is that after handling several I think they will be much more confidence inspiring for a student to try holding or touching because they move much more slowly and deliberately.

As for enclosures I was also considering the animal plastics T8 or the Vision Model #400 48" wide - 26 " deep - 14 " high $349.00 ea. or the Vision Model #322 36" wide - 23" deep - 21" high $349.00 ea. However, I'm still not sure what my budget will be with a solid thermostat that can accommodate the temp range of my room, RHP, possibly an under tank heater, substrate, hides, water bowl, etc and of course a $50-$100 snake.

I should also mention that some more donations have come in and i know have a budget of $600.

If you get a ball python, here is what I would suggest...

Animal plastics
-T8 - $150
-LED lighting - $30
-Lock - $20
-Divider - $20

Reptile Basics
- x2 - 40w RHP's (or one 80w if you are starting with a large snake and don't need the divider in the cage) - $140
- x2 - hides, one for warm side, one for cool side... approx. $10
- medium crock type water bowl - $4

Spyder Robotics
-Herpstat thermostat $100

Uline.com
-1 roll of Kraft indented paper for substrate in the enclosure. A roll will last you a year or more. About $50 (shipping included)

That takes you to about $525 or so... probably $550 with shipping. If you have any ball python breeders near you, ask them if they have any snakes they may be willing to donate for your class. You may get lucky. Maybe they will let you house one in your classroom and then should you decide to part with it, or come summertime, you can give it back to the breeder (instead of having to sell it on Craigslist or something). Maybe that isn't an option, but I'd ask. If there are reptile expos near you, you can almost always find a normal ball python for $20 or so. If you have more money, you can invest in a more expensive "morph" with different colors or patterns.

For what it's worth, I'm another frugal home-heater. Our thermostat is set to go down to 52 during the day when no one's home, and 56 overnight when we're home but asleep under about eight blankets. The room where my snake lives can get down close to 52 if it's particularly cold outside.

I have a 20-gallon tank with foam wrapped around three sides plus the bottom, and an 80-watt RHP. I modified the screen top to hold the RHP and covered over most of the remaining screen area. One 80-watt panel is cheaper than two 40-watt ones; and if you end up not needing all that wattage, it will just run at a lower power (or just not all the time) and it will be fine.
I had the RHP on a cheaper thermostat for awhile, but it made for really wide temperature swings; and in such a cold room, the temperature was swinging up and down pretty fast, too. I suspect that with the thermal mass of the hides, the temperature inside the hides didn't swing quite as much, but the herpstat is much, much better.

One other suggestion is that you make a piece of foam to go across the bottom front of the enclosure, maybe only ~4" high. That will do two things: One, it will make the enclosure seem a little more closed in at the snake's eye level and shut out a little bit of classroom commotion, while still letting you easily see in; and two, it will insulate the lower front edge so you don't get condensation there when the room temperature drops.

First off avoid Vision cages. I was also looking into them since I was going to get the V600 for my boas but after talking to people and reading up on them, I found out they sag a ton in the middle and if you try and stack them, the bottom cages' door binds. Also I was told that the glass doors are easy to pop out so not very secure. I have heard only good things about AP.

Also I don't see a point to a divider as I would never keep anything other than a male hognose snake in a 2x2x1. So you would save a lot by skipping the divider and the 2x 40 watt RHPs.

For the T-stat, if you go with a Herpstat, get at least the Herpstat 1. That one I believe is around $130 but it has all the bells and whistles of the Herpstat 2 and 4, just its only made for 1 set up. Its also in a nice stand alone case that can just be put on top of the cage. The Herpstat basic is nice but as the T-stat is the most important item, pay the extra $15 and get the Herpstat 1 which has the safety relay as well as a couple other bonuses.

As for your temps, I would definitely get the 80 watt RBI RHP. Since its getting to be spring, you should be fine but from the temps you have said you have, you probably will need heat tape in the winter so it might be a good idea to get a Herpstat 2. Those run about $195 but can monitor 2 heat sources.

As for heat tape like I mentioned, you should be fine without until next winter if you need it at all. Hides, go online to Reptile Basics. They got the best hides imo and they are pretty cheap. Like I mentioned I use the large ones for 4' 1000g+ girl and she loves them. Water bowl, you can just go to any local pet shop and pick one up. my advice though is to get a wide base one or just a large one. I use the extra large Zoo Med rock looking ones which are bigger on the bottom and small on top and my girl still tries to burrow under it sometimes and arch her back up and tries to tip it. She is a terror though and destroys anything not tied or cemented down lol.

So a cage, T-stat, RHP, 2x hides, water bowl and substrate should run about $500. $200 for the cage with shipping, $150 for the Herpstat 1, $20 for both hides, $10 for a water bowl, and anywhere from $10-$20 for substrate depending what you go for.

I need to thank you for asking before getting the animal. Had a biology teacher in my schooldays buy a syrian hamster and acually kill it because she new nothing and belived the pet store. Poor thing nested in a tiny plastic-tunnel that fogged up from all the huminity from his breathing, got pneumonia and died.

Well for housing a snake the others gave very good tips. For the Snake itself I would not recomend a young snake but an adult that is known to love handling and action. I have an adult Corn that is my show and tell, he is so laid back you can do everything with him, and if its action in the room he'll gladly come to the front to take a look. (Also he keeps still while handling)
Also good would be an african house snake female they will gladly take everything you offer to feed her and they really grap on tight while handling.

I got other Corns that are really shy or even agressiv, not every animal has the same temperament so get one where the previous owner/breeder can give you info on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Also I don't see a point to a divider as I would never keep anything other than a male hognose snake in a 2x2x1. So you would save a lot by skipping the divider and the 2x 40 watt RHPs.

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This would just depend on the snake that the OP purchases. If he gets a hatchling ball python, a 4'x2' enclosure is way too big. With the divider, you can place it anywhere inside the cage, allowing you to create a small enclosure and move it as the snake grows. There are plenty of people that keep two adults in one T8 with a divider. I recommended the divider if he goes with a young snake. The smaller the house for the snake, the more comfortable and less stressed it will feel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

This would just depend on the snake that the OP purchases. If he gets a hatchling ball python, a 4'x2' enclosure is way too big. With the divider, you can place it anywhere inside the cage, allowing you to create a small enclosure and move it as the snake grows. There are plenty of people that keep two adults in one T8 with a divider. I recommended the divider if he goes with a young snake. The smaller the house for the snake, the more comfortable and less stressed it will feel.

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original post says buying an adult they know is tame and handleable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

First off avoid Vision cages. I was also looking into them since I was going to get the V600 for my boas but after talking to people and reading up on them, I found out they sag a ton in the middle and if you try and stack them, the bottom cages' door binds. Also I was told that the glass doors are easy to pop out so not very secure. I have heard only good things about AP.

Also I don't see a point to a divider as I would never keep anything other than a male hognose snake in a 2x2x1. So you would save a lot by skipping the divider and the 2x 40 watt RHPs.

For the T-stat, if you go with a Herpstat, get at least the Herpstat 1. That one I believe is around $130 but it has all the bells and whistles of the Herpstat 2 and 4, just its only made for 1 set up. Its also in a nice stand alone case that can just be put on top of the cage. The Herpstat basic is nice but as the T-stat is the most important item, pay the extra $15 and get the Herpstat 1 which has the safety relay as well as a couple other bonuses.

As for your temps, I would definitely get the 80 watt RBI RHP. Since its getting to be spring, you should be fine but from the temps you have said you have, you probably will need heat tape in the winter so it might be a good idea to get a Herpstat 2. Those run about $195 but can monitor 2 heat sources.

As for heat tape like I mentioned, you should be fine without until next winter if you need it at all. Hides, go online to Reptile Basics. They got the best hides imo and they are pretty cheap. Like I mentioned I use the large ones for 4' 1000g+ girl and she loves them. Water bowl, you can just go to any local pet shop and pick one up. my advice though is to get a wide base one or just a large one. I use the extra large Zoo Med rock looking ones which are bigger on the bottom and small on top and my girl still tries to burrow under it sometimes and arch her back up and tries to tip it. She is a terror though and destroys anything not tied or cemented down lol.

So a cage, T-stat, RHP, 2x hides, water bowl and substrate should run about $500. $200 for the cage with shipping, $150 for the Herpstat 1, $20 for both hides, $10 for a water bowl, and anywhere from $10-$20 for substrate depending what you go for.

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This x2. I can personally recommend the AP T8 cages, as I had a couple when I was starting out and they were fantastic. Since then, my collection has grown exponentially and I have all of my animals in rack systems (a few by AP - they make a great product). Also, like everyone else has already said, definitely spring for the Herpstat. They are the only thermostats in use here for the snakes themselves (the room heater is on an on/off style Ranco).

There have been such great replies here that that's about all I've got to add (unless you've got additional questions based on these replies). What a great team we've got here! :gj:

Best regards,
Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

This would just depend on the snake that the OP purchases. If he gets a hatchling ball python, a 4'x2' enclosure is way too big. With the divider, you can place it anywhere inside the cage, allowing you to create a small enclosure and move it as the snake grows. There are plenty of people that keep two adults in one T8 with a divider. I recommended the divider if he goes with a young snake. The smaller the house for the snake, the more comfortable and less stressed it will feel.

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True with some snakes I guess TreeGuy but I have found that if you give a baby snake enough hides and clutter up the cage enough, that even a big cage will work. The problem I have found is that most people who are new to snakes don't realize that you need to clutter up even the paths to the hides cause being out in that open space is scary for a baby. So you throw in a bunch of plastic bowls or plastic flower pot saucers down and then throw in a bunch of those silk vines you can get from craft stores like Michaels and even a few paper towel rolls and cover the sides and back of the cage and it should work out. My Bp girl started out in a 40g breeder as a 90g worm and she did fine doing the stuff I said above. She would cruise around to different hides and stuff. They key isn't the amount of room but how well you make the snake feel "secure". But I do agree, 2 little ones can live in a split T8 but I wouldn't want to put a full grown male even in one. 2x2 is just too small imo for a 4' snake.

Wow, thank you everyone! As Eric said what a great team. It's awesome to know that as I enter the world of keeping snakes there is such a friendly and helpful community. I'm learning a ton and starting to feel like I have a lot more direction. I will be sure to PM all of you a thank you at the end of the thread (which will include pictures of what I end up with). (Also I noticed that a lot of users have "thanked x times in y threads." Is there a button for that or does the site take care of it automatically?)

Just a quick disclaimer before I jump in-
In what follows I will just shoot out any questions that I currently have. This is only the second forum I've ever joined so I'm still getting used to the medium. Constructive feedback on the nature of my posts (i.e. too long(?)) is welcome. Also, if there is a salient thread that I have not yet found it is not for a lack of trying and would appreciate being referred to it. I'm doing as much research as I can in my free time, much of it on this site, but it is a lot to navigate in the time I have available.

Update on Circumstances, my Plans/Questions by Topic:

Circumstances:
As of day 1 the ambient room temperature was at a steady 72 degrees Fahrenheit.

Man, my students and I are fortunate that the school is in a well of area. Families have continued to donate to my GoFundMe and I know have a budget of $645.00 (I do also have over 70 students though). Of course this does not mean I need to spend it all. I do want to show that I am being honest with their donations however so any remainder will be used on a gift card to a pet store for food. In so doing I will be able to produce receipts for all funds.

Plans/Questions by Topic:

Enclosure-
If I buy an enclosure I will go with the T8 including door locks and lighting. Depending on the size of the snake I may buy the divider but will definitely go for an adult that I feel confident was regularly handled and has a great disposition. If I don't buy an enclosure it is because one or both of the tanks that a parent offered to donate will work in my circumstances. I will likely have to follow up with some questions when I learn more about them. I will also be sure to get and opaque covering for the tank to provide it an escape from all the happenings in my classroom. I may also do the
Questions-
1) Any thoughts on sliding vs. hinged doors? I've heard/read people both.
2) Any thoughts on florescent vs. LED lighting? I've heard/read people both.

Temperature and Humidity-
For the t-Stat I will invest in a Herpstat that can manage at least 2 devices. I'll pick up an 80 watt RBI RHP and heat tape (just to be safe). I'll also pick up a hygrometer, and two digital thermometers.
Questions-
1) The equipment listed above will indeed address the issue the woman spoke of and the initial experience that Coluber42 had correct? I just want to be as certain as possible before taking on this responsibility.*Quotes of each at the bottom of this post.
2) Once all of this equipment is dialed in to produce the right conditions, what is a safe amount of time to leave the snake alone? (I suppose answers may be contingent on what I continue to learn about the ambient temperatures of my room though.)
3) How difficult is it dial the equipment (particularly the Herpstat), and once I do is it more or less set forever if I use the pulse and not the dimming mode, or will it need regular adjustments as the seasons change? (Students and I will however keep a detailed temperature and humidity log of the snakes enclosure-all part of the great experience this snake will make to my classroom).
4) If I do end up with a AP T8, what should I expect to do to maintain humidity levels? At the Vivarium I went to they spray twice a day but they are in wooden enclosures.
5) Is providing a humid hide with moist sphagnum moss sufficient for a ball python over weekends? In general?

Snake-
I am still leaning heavily towards a normal (or inexpensive morph) of a ball python based on my limited experience handling them and corn snakes. I also prefer their appearance. However, I do appreciate that corn snakes are more easier feeders, more active during the day (which could be nice for students when simply watching it) and generally hardier. As such I am still open to a corn snake but would really want to find an extremely chill one when it comes to handling like the snake that SamSimon described.
Question-
1) I would just like to hear your thoughts on this matter though I appreciate you may be just a little biased ;)



*Relating to Question 1 from the "Enclosure-" section.
In my OP I mentioned that a seemingly knowledgeable clerk at a specialized Vivarium store said something to the following effect about high wattage heat lamps: "while it will be able to heat the entire tank (I am open to wood, plastic, glass or melamine) even in a cold room, it would heat up so quickly that the thermostat will quickly shut it off and it will not be possible to maintain the correct temperature." This sounds similar to what Coluber42 said "I have a 20-gallon tank with foam wrapped around three sides plus the bottom, and an 80-watt RHP. I modified the screen top to hold the RHP and covered over most of the remaining screen area. One 80-watt panel is cheaper than two 40-watt ones; and if you end up not needing all that wattage, it will just run at a lower power (or just not all the time) and it will be fine.
I had the RHP on a cheaper thermostat for awhile, but it made for really wide temperature swings; and in such a cold room, the temperature was swinging up and down pretty fast, too."