newspaper

I'm not sure about the gripe against newspaper. Sorry you are going through a tough time with snake illness. One of my new acquisitions came to me with an RI that I'm now battling (going into the vet tomorrow for a possible second round of antibiotics) and it's never fun. I agree that using a sterile substrate is best, but only within reason. I also don't think I'd use printed or old newspaper as a substrate, just because newspaper gets damp easily and can be a source of mold. I like the rolls of indented kraft paper for my substrate. They are a little thicker and absorbent.

As for keeping snakes healthy, I think the most important things are keeping them quarantined when new and keeping their husbandry correct.

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Originally Posted by bulldog herp

It has everything to do with it, and the tone of your question is validating the question. I have to hear that not quarinting an animal from a very very popular breeder was irresponsible of me and it was my fault, put putting snakes on filthy newspaper is ok and don't tell me newspaper is sanitary, maybe we can use it for napkins, it will help the eRth

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I keep following this tread, and see that you have had a bad situation arise, but how does that translate into anything that has to do with newspaper? I am trying to follow your logic and the only thing I see is you feel like you were bashed for not isolating a new snake and now you see to want to translate that in to others for something totally unrealated. Do you think your snakes got sick due to newspaper?

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Ok, I use newspaper because it's here and that makes it free. No I don't have thousands of dollars in snakes, but until I see something showing that a snake caught something from newspaper it's the route I will take. I think with anything there will be some germs on it. Just an example would be some of the products women use, everyone thinks they are sanitary, but news flash they are not. Bacteria is everywhere and it's just part of the balance. If something gets out of balance that's when issues arise. This is just my thought on it, not trying to burn bridges, just what I currently think on the topic.

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I I know people use newspaper, it's cheap available I get it. But people feel all warm and fuzzy about quarantining ther animals and how much they do to keep there snakes well. Newspaper is not glamours there is no warm a fuzzy feeling about your newspaper practicing.

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Originally Posted by bulldog herp

I I know people use newspaper, it's cheap available I get it. But people feel all warm and fuzzy about quarantining ther animals and how much they do to keep there snakes well. Newspaper is not glamours there is no warm a fuzzy feeling about your newspaper practicing.

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I still don't see what point you are making. Honestly, I am not trying to be argumentative I just don't see anyone saying anything is warm and fuzzy about newspaper. Personally it is easy and that's why we use it. It works, never caused an issue for me or anyone I know, so why not use it? What does this have to do with your sick snake?

Ok, little Johnny is surfing the Internet, because he wants a ball python. He has studied about keeping a ball python and knows buying from a breeder is best He buys one from member of this forum who sells its babies. Little Johnny gets the snake as a pet. Puts in the cage and calls his friends come over see my new pet snake all his friends have reptiles some have lizards and what not. Well 3 days later the snake gets sick. Johnny calls the breeder says the snake is sick. Johnny says my friends came over them it got sick the breeder says oh your friends came over did they strip when they came in your room, little Johnny says no they didn't. Oh well it's Johnny fault you should have had your friend strip. I posted a thread a few weeks ago talking about a post I read about gtp and how it should be the goal of keepers to have animals strong enough to be around bacteria a live with it. By exposing animals to every day things they build a resistance to them. Little Johnny was a hypothetical kid

Just to clarify something I stated before - when I say that printed newspaper can be dirty, I don't just mean germs. I also mean that the ink tends to come off the paper very easily, particularly when it gets damp at all, and gets on anything that comes in contact with it.

Based on your analogy, people should assume that newspaper is as dangerous as new snakes? :rolleye2:

Rest assured it’s not the case, while people have lost entire or partial collections due to improperly quarantined new snakes, no one has ever lost a snake because of newspaper. Newspaper has been used for decades by many without any issues other than leaving temporary ink mark on white snakes (goes away if you wipe the snake off, or with the next shed and the ink is not toxic)

Snakes will not get RI, IBD, OPMV, or mites from newspaper; those are some of the reasons why you quarantine a new snake away from your collection.

Now I understand some people are germophobes and it’s ok for you to be but trust me your snakes are not at risk with newspaper, they do not need to live in a bubble either, they just need to be quarantined and observed away from your collection that is IF you value your collection.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Based on your analogy, people should assume that newspaper is as dangerous as new snakes? :rolleye2:

Rest assured it’s not the case, while people have lost entire or partial collections due to improperly quarantined new snakes, no one has ever lost a snake because of newspaper. Newspaper has been used for decades by many without any issues other than leaving temporary ink mark on white snakes (goes away if you wipe the snake off, or with the next shed and the ink is not toxic)

Snakes will not get RI, IBD, OPMV, or mites from newspaper; those are some of the reasons why you quarantine a new snake away from your collection.

Now I understand some people are germophobes and it’s ok for you to be but trust me your snakes are not at risk with newspaper, they do not need to live in a bubble either, they just need to be quarantined and observed away from your collection that is IF you value your collection.

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There is not one person that can prove that newspaper has never made a snake sick, why because people are always so fast to say oh you didn't clean your cage, you didn't clean water bowls, your not hot enough etc. Deborah i am not saying that newspaper is the cause of snake illness 100 percent of the time. But if i told you that i have a sick snake that i just cleaned his cage and swabbed his mouth then, went to the store and grabbed a newspaper, would you use it as a snake liner. Now before everyone says thats a crazy analogy, i now its unlikely, but can a customer or store owner that sick touch the newspaper. If you saw someone blow there nose and touch the newspaper would you use that one, probably not, but if you didn't see the person do it you would have. Yes i believe quarantining animals is important because of other peoples practices, but i feel that if you go to that extent, i personal could never justify the use of used newspaper as a substrate, regardless of the unproven facts that a snake has never gotten sick from it. I bred boas and burmese pythons in 1991 because i was fascinated by it. The snakes where kept in a huge cage in a biology class room with 1000 of kids around them, and the thrived. Once the animals became 10s of thousands of $$$, quarantining animals became necessary to protect your collection. Was it necessary yes i would ensure my 10,000 investment was protected, however do i believe that this caused captive animals to be more susceptible to common disease, Yes and i am sorry i cant be persuaded other wise. I love the hobby and look forward to every day spending time with my snakes, and do what i can to make them happy and healthy.

sorry my point was that, why is quarantine and sanitation, and husbandry so important almost to the point of being a fanatic, but when it comes to something thats the cheapest option that, no one can dispute is not sanitary, its never brought up, never mentioned. Thats it, this was never a post about bashing anyone it was merely a discussion about some thing i feel is contradictory to animal health safety. I will quarantine my new animals always, but i will never use used newspaper as a substrate.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

I still don't see what point you are making. Honestly, I am not trying to be argumentative I just don't see anyone saying anything is warm and fuzzy about newspaper. Personally it is easy and that's why we use it. It works, never caused an issue for me or anyone I know, so why not use it? What does this have to do with your sick snake?

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sorry my point was that, why is quarantine and sanitation, and husbandry so important almost to the point of being a fanatic, but when it comes to something thats the cheapest option that, no one can dispute is not sanitary, its never brought up, never mentioned. Thats it, this was never a post about bashing anyone it was merely a discussion about some thing i feel is contradictory to animal health safety. I will quarantine my new animals always, but i will never use used newspaper as a substrate.