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  • 11-30-2004, 02:09 PM
    Ginevive
    Yikes, that video upset me. I am not a vegetarian, but I try to avoid beef and other storebought meat a lot because, not only is it from farms like those on the video, but also because they pump all sorts of hormones, etc. into those animals. My boyfriend hunts, and he will usually get 2-3 deer each year (got three so far) and we use that ground up for tacos and pasta dishes, and eat steaks and jerky frrom that too.
    At least I know that the deer he shoots, do not suffer and live a life like the factory-farmed animals do.
    I think that these videos were all made at big "factory farms." I know a lot of farmers in my area that do not use methods that are so cruel. Their cows seem happy and are allowed "free range" which means they can graze all spring and summer. In winter they are put into a barn at night and sometimes allowed to go outside if the weather is not horrendous. I think that we're going to consider buying a side of beef from our friends who have about 20 cattle and raise them under humane conditions.
    I "grow" my own rats and mice too. It really is not hard. I use aspen shavings as a substrate and change that once weekly. I feed them these lab blocks that I get at my friend's pet store (not sure of the name.) The shavings are $3 a bag and I use roughly three bags a month, and feed is $4 a bag, and a bag is good for a month too.
    Right now I have two preggo female rats, and one preg mouse, with another mouse that has 14 babies. It is definately worth a try! As long as a male and female are left together for long enough (mice go into heat every three days, rats every 5) then you should get success. But avoid getting rats from fancy breeders, who often neuter them.
  • 11-30-2004, 02:18 PM
    Ginevive
    To answer your original question Guitrage; if I were you, I would look at the sites of the people selling rats, and see how their cages are set up, if they have photos.
    One thing I just thought of; it would be harder for rat breeders to skimp on their animals' housing, than it is for factory farmers. The rat breeders Have to give you a quality rat, that looks good and is not all full of sores or missing limbs, etc. But the meat we get from FFs is processed beyond recognition. Just a thought.
  • 11-30-2004, 06:32 PM
    SatanicIntention
    Our rats from breeders weren't neutered, but if we breed them, they will most likely be taken away. Rat breeders put alot of time and effort into making clean bloodlines and having a good pedigree. Our 2 have pedigrees that follow all the way back to their great-great-grandparents, and no inbreeding has resulted. If you want to breed rats for feeders, just go to a petstore, get a male and a female, grow them up a little, until they are at least a couple months old, then you can breed them. If you buy a rat from a breeder, it will be just a pet, you can't breed it, sell it to anyone, nothing. Besides, breeders usually charge $15-$30 for one rat, when you can go to the petstore and get feeder rats for $5 or so.

    Just my $0.02 on it all.

    Also, PETA has a habit of lying through their teeth alot... Animals are rarely kept that way anymore, and if they are, it's for space constraints. Dairy cattle are pretty aggressive, one ran my teacher into a fence. But they are kept very humanely, in big stalls and usually with rubber pads on the floor while they are being kept inside. Most aren't kept inside, like Gin said, and usually are given free run of pasture. If they were kept inside all of the time, they wouldn't be able to lactate...

    If you are looking for humane places, try Gourmet Rodent, Rodent Pro, Big Cheese Factory, all of those should be good places. Just remember, you got that video from PETA... enough said..
  • 11-30-2004, 08:39 PM
    guitrage
    HOTM Nov. Winner
    LOL your experience with dairy farms is most likely local companies; when was the last time you visited a major corporate farm? As for justifying it by saying that there are space constraints, what a load of BS! If you only have so much room, that means you can only humanely house this many animals, it doesn't mean cram more in there because you don't want to pay for proper housing!

    Quote:

    Dairy cattle are pretty aggressive
    Oh, OK. Now I see why it's OK to abuse them.

    Quote:

    Also, PETA has a habit of lying through their teeth a lot...
    Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they're lying.

    By no means does not being human mean that an animal doesn't deserve humane treatment. Some of us think we're so special and that other animals are just here to serve us. I feel bad for you if you are one of them, but I feel even worse for the animals who suffer as a consequence of your views.
  • 12-01-2004, 12:22 PM
    Marla
    This is starting to veer off topic into potentially flammable territory. The topic was companies that treat feeder rodents humanely, or what to do if you are unsure if a company treats feeder rodents in accord with your standards.



    For what it's worth, I could do without both corporate farms and PETA, so I am not trying to pick a side.
  • 12-01-2004, 12:36 PM
    guitrage
    OK, back on the topic of breeding rodents. SatanicIntention - why can't we breed rats from a breeder and feed the offspring to our snakes? Is it because the breeders have worked hard to obtain a pure bloodline and we're disrespecting that by using them as food, or what? I'm not criticizing, I'm curious. If I bred rats, I would want them to be as healthy as possible, and rats from a breeder would most likely be healthier than petstore rats.
  • 12-01-2004, 02:55 PM
    Schlyne
    When you buy a pedigree animal (dog, cat, etc) and if you decide all you want is a pet, you sign papers stating that you will never breed the animal etc. if you wish to breed the animal, you usually pay a completely different price, and then you can breed the animal.

    You might be able to find somebody who is not breeding rats for show, and then would not require the entire contract.

    You might want to check with some of the other forum member who breed their own food..maybe you could get babbies from one of them (if both parties were interested)?
  • 12-01-2004, 08:17 PM
    SatanicIntention
    Petstore rats can be just as healthy as a breeder's rats, you just have to take them to the vet and get them checked for parasites. It's not expensive. It's not that it matters anyway, since parasites aren't transferable to the snakes that eat them, but it would be healthier for the rat if it will be producing babies. Parasites are just another strain on the body, and you would want the babies to be as healthy as possible.

    If you tell a breeder that you want to breed their rats for feeders, they will not sell anything to you. Also, breeders don't just breed rats to show them, they breed them for pets, and have worked long and hard to have healthy, clean bloodlines. Also, if you bought babies from a breeder, they would either be brother/sister from the same litter, or somehow related: same set of parents but born at different times. Ex: I have a male rat Willard, who is related to 1 of my friend's rats, and one of hers is related to another one of hers.

    When I bought mine, I had to sign this huge contract stating that I wouldn't breed them, feed them off, sell them, feed them the wrong food, etc... It's at www.rattiusmaximus.com
    And yes, it is disrespectful to breed purebred rats if you have already signed a contract that you will not breed them. My contract says that if I breed them, the rats will be taken away.

    From alot of people, breeder quality rats are usually in the $30-$40 range. Why would you want to spend $60 to $80 on a pair of rats just to breed them for snake food? Wouldn't it be more economical to buy pet store rats, worm 'em and then start breeding? That's what I plan to do when my snake is bigger. Then I won't get attached to them since they are just white pet store rats. You can also email some rat breeders and ask them their opinion.
  • 12-01-2004, 08:21 PM
    Brandon.O
    Or you could get them from a rat breeder who breeds rats for food.............

    Ive seen too many sick rats at pet stores to ever buy another for feeding purposes. I would rather just get a healthy one, than get a sick rat and have to take it to the vet, esp a feeder rat.
  • 12-01-2004, 09:19 PM
    Schlyne
    Becky's statment is far more accurate than mine, as I have never bought rats from a breeder, and what I know about pedigree animals is based on my knowledge of my mom showing a St. Bernard before I was around.

    :worship:
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