Diamond x Jungle using tail as lure?

Hey to each their own. Obviously we are dumb ass over here and Lord carpet and the 100s of different species have breed is stuck in his ways. Let me ask u this so say u go and look in ur cages tomorrow and u have a bloody stool all over the cage now u have no clue what snake did it........so now you are taking two snakes to the vet to find out what snake is sick double the money.....that just one example . this is my last post to you because I'm not gunna argue with a brick wall. To each there own...... Make sure u let me know when the breeders housing carpets together comments on here. Thanks Jeremy.

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Gio,

Also, I just want to add, my responses are somewhat long, as I did place quite a bit of thought into my decisions to keep the snakes together. When people have a blanket statement that has a lot of insinuation, I am forced to detail everything out, sorry if that comes across as defensive, as it is not. I just want to make the right decision forward, so question those who question my care.

For your use of "biological" and noting on "you will not find ANY care sheet" are typically polar opposites. Most biological studies and findings show very different requirements than the average care sheet. With both of my pythons being crosses, most likely in captive crossing over 30 years, I would think the breeders and their environments have become the new biological nitch to study, as not one of my Pythons can be found in the wild. And typically these 3 species collectively are kept under similar conditions over the last 30 years, with the exception of pure Diamonds.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Hey to each their own. Obviously we are dumb ass over here and Lord carpet and the 100s of different species have breed is stuck in his ways. Let me ask u this so say u go and look in ur cages tomorrow and u have a bloody stool all over the cage now u have no clue what snake did it........so now you are taking two snakes to the vet to find out what snake is sick double the money.....that just one example . this is my last post to you because I'm not gunna argue with a brick wall. To each there own...... Make sure u let me know when the breeders housing carpets together comments on here. Thanks Jeremy.

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Bloody stool? Not sure what that would be. I will be taking fecal samples regardless to a friend and if anything to be concerned about I have access to meds and know how to treat (unless something terminal). But if I had to pay full price at a vet and did not have enough money, yes I would be concerned.

I am not the brick wall here LGL15G, I am the one sharing everything, putting myself on the line as you and Gia offer blanket statements that "no one does that" and "breeders don't know what they are doing". If you plan to tell people they are wrong, try to back it up with facts, or stop trying to be the forum experts.

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Originally Posted by carpet

Gio,

It is not myself defensive, it seems more or less the "experts" of the forum want to force down a hard care sheet of sorts without question, over simply observing behavior and learning animals as individuals. I just explained what I have found and previous experiences on forums and discussions with those who have been doing this for many years. I also know many articles and publication writers go for the safest approach, because they are telling the community, not wanting naysayers to discredit their publication that they rely on for income or credibility in the community just as the breeders do. I also find many breeders know more than most and refuse to offer publicly the advice, so they don't have everyone breeding and competing for their business. So you might find some offer bad advice if you don't know them.

Is this community so one sided, that I can not say that I have other sources who are indifferent to the comments? I have yet to see any proof as to your claims as well, but have had people who I know study their breeders intensely, for behavioral traits and think otherwise. I agree, there are some bad breeders, but if you are breeding them year after year, there is something to the madness.

As for proper care, I have the ability to offer two 10 foot long cages, but I honestly think my housing is appropriate if not overkill considering these are hatchlings in 2 foot x 2 foot cage. Another thing is I was never set on keeping them together if I found any issues (contamination aside as I discussed this, they are already contaminated*), but the accusatory responses here made me feel the need to debate the comments, as I feel they where not exactly accurate or with any validity as to why, just this desire to have a hard care sheet, for every snake.

* as far as contamination, I know the location these come from has phorid flies (like most wholesalers and large retailers) that come in with the crickets. I did extensive study in previous collections / facilities and if you have these flies, and just screen, all of your tanks are infected if one is infected no matter how well cages are disinfected. I consider these two snakes equal in quarantine requirements.

With that said, I will continue to investigate things like nutrition of the rats that are fed, temps, humidity and other things that are truly important to the longevity of my pythons.. and laugh off this ridiculous thread.

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Best of luck.

I hope your experience is problem free.

The proof you seem to think doesn't exist is actually in the science/biology of these animals. Snakes are secret and solitary and the proven, best practices are to house them separately until they are paired for breeding.

As juveniles being established in captivity it is even more important to house them separately for a number of reasons.

Your procedures possibly being read and practiced by a new keeper that comes here looking for help are not helpful.

If you prefer to do things differently, go for it.

Don't bash the people on the board (forum experts) you just joined and posted on for being concerned about the manner in which you are keeping two juvenile pythons when they have the best interest of the snakes in mind. Laugh it of if you want.

Do your thing and good luck to you.

I never stated I was an expert.

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When did I state I was an expert. I know that cohabiting can be done. But it only takes one mistake.I know what I have invested in my animals and it's not worth the risk.the health and well being is number 1 for me. One snake gets sick while cohabiting best bet the other is now sick to. Yes u may have the meds you need and have the experience you need by why risk it. Its all good until you come home to a two dead snakes from one trying to eat the other.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Best of luck.
The proof you seem to think doesn't exist is actually in the science/biology of these animals. Snakes are secret and solitary and the proven, best practices are to house them separately until they are paired for breeding.

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Actually many species of snakes do den together, some pair up every year and that is proven. Also many snakes eat other snakes, but this is not the case of Carpets. The biology exists in breeder care over the last 30 years, the people you bash are the reason many generations exist outside of Australia today.

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Originally Posted by Gio

As juveniles being established in captivity it is even more important to house them separately for a number of reasons.

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I hear the opposite for juveniles, and never got a single reason from you why juveniles over adult on this from you.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Your procedures possibly being read and practiced by a new keeper that comes here looking for help are not helpful.

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We want newbies to think of you as authoritative to the subject? I think more so, since this forum is considered the truth on keeping snakes it should be questioned. I am sorry but I don't agree.

Just remember if you are having trouble breeding the snake yourself, chances are they are not happy. You can bash breeders, but their snakes breed and we all know you can't breed reptiles under improper "biological" conditions. I would say you can burn a female out, but we are not talking about that.

Here is an interest post from a breeder in Scotland when someone wanted to house 5 Jungles...

Re: can you house multiple JCP's together?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif remember they have a crazy feeding response and the chance one will munch the other is high.

the chance of a same sized carpet python trying to eat another is very slim if at all mate

out of all the morelia enthusiasts i am in contact with all of them have kept carpets together with no problems

other species i cannot comment on but with carpets,same size females,same size pairs lead to no complications that i have heard of

2 males may show signs of combat as in wrestling and trying to pin each others heads to the ground but i have never witnessed or heard of biting with morelia

i have seen a case where 2 full grown male macklots were put together and that did end up with large bite wounds

that said some species of snakes show no problems co habiting

to the op
i still would not put 5 jungles in one

cheers shaun
__________________
ALWAYS judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of NO POSSIBLE USE TO THEM !

Another post by the same person...

Re: can you house multiple JCP's together?

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its only carpets i keep mate sometimes i house.....

same size females together

hatchling pairs until they reach sub adult hood i then seperate and only put them back together for breeding

i have kept adult pairs together that i had no intention of breeding with each other but even when they have not been cooled for breeding i still like to seperate during breeding season for peace of mind

i would NEVER house 2 males in the same tank

the above is just my way of doing things and has caused me no problems with my carpets

i personally would not put 4 or 5 jungles in the same enclosure

also when breeding use the females tank so the male can be removed and the female feels secure in her own tank.

imo its always best to introduce the male to the females tank as he only has one thing on his mind at breeding season if you do it the other way round the female tends to show more interest in exploring the new tank rather than the job in hand

the one thing i find a pain when keeping carpets together is the hassle of getting them out at feeding time

i only keep feeding shedding and health treatments records i'm not one for getting all hung up on when my snake poo's.i give them regular health checks so would notice signs of constipation which i'm happy to say has never been an issue with my collection

cheers shaun

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Originally Posted by carpet

Actually many species of snakes do den together, some pair up every year and that is proven. Also many snakes eat other snakes, but this is not the case of Carpets. The biology exists in breeder care over the last 30 years, the people you bash are the reason many generations exist outside of Australia today.


I hear the opposite for juveniles, and never got a single reason from you why juveniles over adult on this from you.


We want newbies to think of you as authoritative to the subject? I think more so, since this forum is considered the truth on keeping snakes it should be questioned. I am sorry but I don't agree.

Just remember if you are having trouble breeding the snake yourself, chances are they are not happy. You can bash breeders, but their snakes breed and we all know you can't breed reptiles under improper "biological" conditions. I would say you can burn a female out, but we are not talking about that.

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Brooding snakes (insert species) VS. carpet pythons? Very different, and carpets are not noted for brooding or paring up in mass prior to breeding. What does happen in certain species is male combat but I don't have the time to go into all the reasoning behind my statements. Are you set on breeding? It appears that is you goal.

I can't believe you "hear the opposite" for juveniles LOL!

You seem to think juvenile snakes, ones you've just purchased should be housed together?? If you honestly can't figure out the numerous reasons why that shouldn't happen without me listing them, then you should not be keeping snakes.

I don't care who thinks I'm an authority or not. I never claimed I was contrary to what you seem to think. However it's fairly elementary, basic knowledge that the majority of captive snakes should NOT be housed together. Again when young and being established even more so. But you can't seem to figure out the reason why not to do it. OK,,, then go do what you want to do.

The people I bash??? Who is that?? You say breeders. Are these the breeders that recommend keeping snakes in separate enclosures? Or are these the "few" that you know that do it with several in one enclosure?

Do as you wish as I've said before.

Just because you have some experience with your style of keeping carpet pythons, don't assume a new keeper could pull it off.

Funny that you mention breeders then doubt practiced, proven, and accepted methods of care for carpet pythons written by experienced breeders and herpetologists that have studied these animals.

Many of whom actually do have the science and biology of the animals in mind.

I can't think of a single person with any experience that would skip quarantine, and drop a new juvenile snake into the same cage as another unestablished juvenile snake.

But,,, I guess you are one who can. That's admirable!

Good luck in raising your carpet pythons the way you want to.