RI: Clean out her nose?

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Originally Posted by ratchet

Actually, the vet said it wouldn't hurt... Why do you think it's so bad? There's posts online where keepers have said it's never failed them when it came to getting rid of an early onset of an infection. I know not everything online is something to go by, but I haven't come across anyone saying not to use it. I actually had another snake keeper tell me to do it when I first noticed the symptoms.

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Well, then by all means, continue to administer the treatment. :gj:

Have you figured out and fixed what was wrong that caused the RI?

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Originally Posted by KMG

Have you figured out and fixed what was wrong that caused the RI?

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The vet did not take a culture.

We therefore do not know if it's viral, bacterial or otherwise.

He blindly administered an antibiotic and approved of a vick's eucalyptus oil inhalation regimen.

To the OP - what were the symptoms?

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Originally Posted by ratchet

Actually, the vet said it wouldn't hurt... Why do you think it's so bad?

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It took me about 30 seconds on Google to determine that neither Vicks nor eucalyptus oil will come anywhere near my collection. Also after looking at the MSDS for F10SC I would nebulize with that either, though people do claim that it works.

If you feel you MUST nebulize then use plain water.

Okay, I'm obviously going about this the hard way... bear with me here. :/

I had just recently cleaned her tank, it was dry and clean. Low humidity and cold temperature drops at night are what I believe were the causes of her getting sick, our windows in our bedroom were left open for a few nights and it got pretty chilly. She's no longer in that room anymore, temperatures are now above 80 always and the humidity is up now too.

Her symptoms were the click and wheeze breathing with the throat bulge and her nostrils looked plugged up as well. No mucus was bubbling or anything out of her mouth, the vet said she was still in the pretty early stages of an infection.

He had offered to do cultures, but he said he was confident that based off of the conditions I just described above, he said he'd feel comfortable prescribing the injections we are now giving her.. I guess that's a shame on me with not getting him to do the blood work? I'll be sure to not make that mistake again.. this was my first vet trip with a snake and the vet has over 35 years of reptile experience, so newbie mistake was to go off of his confidence...

Her nose has been clearing up, one nostril looks clean now. She goes from raising her head to laying it down, but she is still breathing quite heavy.

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Originally Posted by ratchet

Okay, I'm obviously going about this the hard way... bear with me here. :/

I had just recently cleaned her tank, it was dry and clean. Low humidity and cold temperature drops at night are what I believe were the causes of her getting sick, our windows in our bedroom were left open for a few nights and it got pretty chilly. She's no longer in that room anymore, temperatures are now above 80 always and the humidity is up now too.

Her symptoms were the click and wheeze breathing with the throat bulge and her nostrils looked plugged up as well. No mucus was bubbling or anything out of her mouth, the vet said she was still in the pretty early stages of an infection.

He had offered to do cultures, but he said he was confident that based off of the conditions I just described above, he said he'd feel comfortable prescribing the injections we are now giving her.. I guess that's a shame on me with not getting him to do the blood work? I'll be sure to not make that mistake again.. this was my first vet trip with a snake and the vet has over 35 years of reptile experience, so newbie mistake was to go off of his confidence...

Her nose has been clearing up, one nostril looks clean now. She goes from raising her head to laying it down, but she is still breathing quite heavy.

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Hi.

RIs can happen for a number of reasons and they are not always bacterial in nature. Even if they end up being bacterial, overuse and misuse of certain antibiotics has rendered many of them ineffectual.

It's not that blood work is required, it's more that the vet needs to culture any present mucous in order to determined (a) if the infection is bacterial and (b) what antibiotics it is susceptible to.

I've seen good reptile vets and bad reptile vets. I've seen reptile vets that are great with tortoises and awful with snakes. However, the two reptile vets I trust most would not prescribe an antibiotic until a culture was done. They may send me home with one until the culture has been processed, but they would be careful to select one that was broad spectrum and not widely used in order to insure effectiveness.

Now the euc oil/vicks thing is altogether another story. A forum member PM'd me the link to a couple of threads where this has been recommended. Several of the people who tried it did not even have confirmed RIs - clicking and wheezing noises by themselves in snakes can be normal in the absence of other symptoms.

Both vicks and euc oil can be respiratory irritants if dosed incorrectly. In a hobby where people routinely crap their pants over the very mention of pine being used as substrate, I am amazed that this practice would find any footing in the community.

Here's the deal - the euc/vicks treatment relies on steam as a delivery vehicle. Nebulized water and steam are excellent on their own as aids in relieving congestion. So the addition of a potential irritant seems silly.

As to the addition of F10sc to a nebulizer - it has actually gained traction in real veterinary circles. F10 is antibacterial, anti-fungal and a virucide. The dilution instruction in a proper nebulizer limit it to exposure levels routinely seen during cage maintenance. It was recommended to me by two vets and I have used it to great effect.

However, I apply if in situ - without removing the animal to a separate enclosure...which is why I have even more issues with the vics/euc oil treatment.

An essential aspect to treating illness in reptiles is to minimize stress. Any remedy that involves repeatedly removing the animal, handling the animal or stressing the animal is a no no (with the exception of administering required and prescribed medicine).

Bottom line:

You are at a point where to may not see improvement for a couple more treatments with the antibiotic anyway. If the animal is not showing any further improvement over the next 5 to 7 days, ask the vet for a culture.

Also, my suggestion would be to cease all applications of respiratory irritants. If you want to nebulize something, nebulize distilled water directly into the enclosure or hide for 20 min a day. The nebulized water itself may aid in loosening mucous or congestion.

If you'd like to try the F10, well I have a thread on here somewhere where I discussed how I use it and I believe Robert (Pit on the Prowl) has also outlined his success in utilizing it.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You are at a point where to may not see improvement for a couple more treatments with the antibiotic anyway. If the animal is not showing any further improvement over the next 5 to 7 days, ask the vet for a culture.

Also, my suggestion would be to cease all applications of respiratory irritants. If you want to nebulize something, nebulize distilled water directly into the enclosure or hide for 20 min a day. The nebulized water itself may aid in loosening mucous or congestion.

If you'd like to try the F10, well I have a thread on here somewhere where I discussed how I use it and I believe Robert (Pit on the Prowl) has also outlined his success in utilizing it.

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Thanks a lot for clearing that all up!! It's been pretty up and down; relief from this person telling me one thing, but then I stress again when I hear something else from a different person, haha... but I haven't done the Vicks and Eucalyptus treatment for about two days now and I'll be sure to leave that to rest. The injections have been stressful enough for the both of us, I can't wait till that's over and done with. But I can't imagine having to go through it all again because it was the wrong medication... I guess it's a wait and see game now.

I really appreciate the explication and advice. Still so much to learn, that's for sure! Fingers crossed this clears up without too much more stress.

My vet also recommended the Vic's and eucalyptus treatment for my snake with a RI.

Vicks and Eucalyptus oil is hardly a irritate to anything other then mucus and respiratory infections, but you would know that because your a vet.... Or a doctor or something like that.


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Originally Posted by LestertheLesser

My vet also recommended the Vic's and eucalyptus treatment for my snake with a RI.

Vicks and Eucalyptus oil is hardly a irritate to anything other then mucus and respiratory infections, but you would know that because your a vet.... Or a doctor or something like that.


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Read this and thank me later from saving you from a stupid practice - and find a new vet while you are at it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19136404

Bottom line, research - no forum bull crap - on ANIMALS shows that:

Vick's Vapor Rub stimulates mucous secretion in test animals. The results of the linked study conclusively showed that Vick's Vapor Rub creates the same inflammatory respiratory reaction that you'd see with an exposure to inhalant irritants. This could lead to mucus obstruction of small airways and increased congestion.

What a brilliant idea - treat a damn RI by irritating the respiratory system and increasing mucous production.:gj:

In other words, it does the opposite of what you think it does.

As for eucalyptus oil - inhaling has been linked to vocal cord irritation. Plus, every hippie-dippie site that deals in aromatherapy offers the same warning:

"Topical use or inhalation of eucalyptus oil at low concentrations may be safe, although significant and potentially lethal toxicity has been consistently reported with oral use and may occur with inhalation use as well. All routes of administration should be avoided in children.

Everything you typed did nothing for me. I will follow my vets instructions. After all your just reading someone else's abstract and applying it to your own theories. People will alway have their own opinion, since my vet has theirs I will follow it.

Why tell someone to go against their vet, when you yourself are not a vet, and probably (in assuming so bear with me) have no medical background

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