How long to freeze?

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Well I raise my own rats. Haven't seen a mite anywhere.

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So what parasites do you think you need to kill through freezing then?

-adam

Erm.. you got me there. lol.. I'm a little slow sometimes. :?

I guess I just wanted to make absolutely positively sure that nothing bad was going into my snakes. They were pet store rats..

Nope, your snakes will be fine. Keep their cages clean (especially their water bowls) and they'll be A-OK.

No need to freeze unless you prefer to feed FT.

-adam

I read a bit of the debate thread on f/t vs live (can't bring myself to read the whole thing)

Ok the parasite thing is ruled out.. but does it make a snake more agressive towards the keeper? ie.. associates movement with food? Probably just another groundless myth but.. all the bad stories about feeding live, it's hard to ignore.

My best reason to feed f/t is I can kill the stupid things and be rid of them! Seriously though, I only have one breeding pair of mice and rats, and unless I freeze it's difficult to always have the correct size available. If I ran out of live ones of the right size and had to feed f/t the snake may not accept it.

Isn't it true that if you get a BP on f/t, then feed it live, it may not accept f/t again right away?

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I read a bit of the debate thread on f/t vs live (can't bring myself to read the whole thing)

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That's too bad, there is a lot of great information in there. It's sad that many see it as a FT vs. live thing. Personally I see either as a great way to feed ball pythons, I was only trying to point out that there is nothing wrong with live feeding.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Ok the parasite thing is ruled out.. but does it make a snake more agressive towards the keeper? ie.. associates movement with food? Probably just another groundless myth but.. all the bad stories about feeding live, it's hard to ignore.

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Not at all ... ball pythons are wild animals, they can and may bite no matter what you feed them. Feeding live doesn't make them any more aggressive than any other feeding method.

All of those bad stoires are mostly the result of people not taking the proper care of their snakes. If you leave a live rat in with a ball python for 2 weeks of course the rat is going to bite the ball python. The poor thing needs to eat!

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Originally Posted by Shelby

My best reason to feed f/t is I can kill the stupid things and be rid of them! Seriously though, I only have one breeding pair of mice and rats, and unless I freeze it's difficult to always have the correct size available. If I ran out of live ones of the right size and had to feed f/t the snake may not accept it.

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That's awesome! You don't need a good reason to feed FT or PK or live, you just need to do what works for you and your snake. Sounds like FT works out perfectly for you and thats really cool!

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Isn't it true that if you get a BP on f/t, then feed it live, it may not accept f/t again right away?

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That certainly can happen. Ball pythons naturally prefer live prey and if you train them to take FT or PK and then give them live they may need to be trained all over again. They LOVE the live stuff.

The best thing you can do is make feeding a routine. Do it on the same day every week at about the same time. Try and move around the room the same way too. Your snakes will pick up on this and learn to identify your routine as feeding time. Ball pythons are very good at learning routines and once they're on a solid routine that they know, you could toss either FT or live in there and chances are they'll eat it either way (assuming they've been taught to eat FT at some point).

Hope this helps.

-adam

Very helpful post.

I would read that whole thread, but I worked 8 hours today, I'm dead tired, and that's 142 posts to read. Nope, sorry, but nope. lol

I don't really think of it as a vs thing, it seems more like people throwing out their own personal reasons and ideas for feeding how they do. (vs is just easier to type. see how tired I am?)

Good to hear it doesn't make them more agressive. I just hear it from people all the time, if you hear something enough times, it seems more true. Though if I use my own logic, I've fed some of my snakes live before, and they never were agressive towards me.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

All of those bad stoires are mostly the result of people not taking the proper care of their snakes. If you leave a live rat in with a ball python for 2 weeks of course the rat is going to bite the ball python. The poor thing needs to eat!

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So true. I can forget how neglectful people can be sometimes.. I heard from one lady who said she left it in there for a couple months with her snake! Another left a dead one for a couple weeks! How could you possible live with the smell? Not to mention the snake.. with their sense of smell, though I don't know that it'd bother them like it does us, but either way, that's so unhealthy for the poor snake..

The thing that attracts me to feeding live, is the time saving part. I just am thinking though.. I want to breed snakes and have a lot of them, but would people be so willing to buy a snake that doesn't eat f/t?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The best thing you can do is make feeding a routine. Do it on the same day every week at about the same time. Try and move around the room the same way too. Your snakes will pick up on this and learn to identify your routine as feeding time. Ball pythons are very good at learning routines and once they're on a solid routine that they know, you could toss either FT or live in there and chances are they'll eat it either way (assuming they've been taught to eat FT at some point).

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Hmm.. that's an interesting thought. I always feed my snakes Saturday night. (Just got done now)

EDIT: oh.. and I just can't shake the thought of the snake grabbing a live rat at mid-body, and the rat turning around and biting it.. but you say you've fed live thousands of times and haven't had a problem...

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Originally Posted by Shelby

The thing that attracts me to feeding live, is the time saving part. I just am thinking though.. I want to breed snakes and have a lot of them, but would people be so willing to buy a snake that doesn't eat f/t?

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I'm often asked by customers to switch over the snakes that I sell to FT. I've never had a complaint after the fact. Baby ball pythons almost never take FT as their first meal, so live feeding is a must at some point.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

EDIT: oh.. and I just can't shake the thought of the snake grabbing a live rat at mid-body, and the rat turning around and biting it.. but you say you've fed live thousands of times and haven't had a problem...

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They usually don't hit it mid body, it's actually the shoulder or neck. At that point they wrap their coils around the rodent so fast that it doesn't have time to react. While they constrict the rodents claws are compressed against it's body in the snakes coils and their teeth and face are down and away from the snake usually with a coil around the rodents neck for added protection. While it usually takes a minute or two for the snake to finish constricting, the rodent itself succombs in about 10 seconds. (can ya tell i've done it a few times? ... LOL)

Live feeding is a huge time savings and also, ball pythons that eat live are more consistent reliable eaters. That said, FT and PK are excellent methods of feeding as well!

Whichever you choose, I'm sure things will work out great!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

They usually don't hit it mid body, it's actually the shoulder or neck. At that point they wrap their coils around the rodent so fast that it doesn't have time to react. While they constrict the rodents claws are compressed against it's body in the snakes coils and their teeth and face are down and away from the snake usually with a coil around the rodents neck for added protection. While it usually takes a minute or two for the snake to finish constricting, the rodent itself succombs in about 10 seconds. (can ya tell i've done it a few times? ... LOL)

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Yeah, they are lightning fast. I was amazed at how fast my little chunky sandboa could be when I fed her a live pinky.

I guess it's silly to think that a snake would just 'miss'. The rodents are too dumb to move out of the way when they're struck at anyway, and they're not fast enough.

Perhaps sometime when I have enough snakes that the time savings will be worth it, I will switch to live.

Thanks for your time and advice.

ooh.. one more thought. What if a snake is ill? Would that be unsafe to feed live then?

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Originally Posted by Shelby

ooh.. one more thought. What if a snake is ill? Would that be unsafe to feed live then?

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If a snake is too ill to eat a live rodent then it's too ill to eat FT or PK. When a snake is sick it needs to be medicated and kept very warm. The act of eating and digesting a food item takes away precious energy that is needed to bolster it's immune system and get better.

-adam