Belly heat

Nocturnal lizards and terrestrial snakes do not bask in the light, and tend to require simply a warm/hot spot with which to thermoregulate themselves at all times. There are a few more heating options available for these animals.


If substrate and cage is too thick....

Radiant Heat Panels (RHPs) are fixtures made for the housing industry which have been modified to work for the reptile industry. These were originally made to provide heat for rooms, where the heat would radiate down from the ceiling tiles. RHPs usually need to be wired by hand, must be controlled with a thermostat, and can only be used in enclosures where they can be securely fastened to the ceiling with screws or similar items. They provide safe, relatively energy efficient heat without producing any light to disturb the animal. They come in a variety of sizes to fit most enclosures. RHPs provide an excellent heating alternative when terrarium substrate prevents the use of under-enclosure heating options. Place a RHP on one side of the enclosure only, to allow for a proper heat gradient.

Done deal....Some PVC cages are too thick to run heat tape under them....But !!!thickness of the cage is great for holding in heat and humidity so why not go for the RHP ?

Another question for me.....The blinking orange light on a RHP, is it annoying to a snake ? It annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

Nocturnal lizards and terrestrial snakes do not bask in the light, and tend to require simply a warm/hot spot with which to thermoregulate themselves at all times. There are a few more heating options available for these animals.


Another question for me.....The blinking orange light on a RHP, is it annoying to a snake ? It annoys me.

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Yes they are so why simulate the suns rays when they do not bask? Why not simulate the warmed ground after the sun as set like a UTH. I have never had an issue heating through PVCx, Glass, acrylic panel, PVC, polycarb, and Glass reinforced plastics.

Humidity is a product of ambient temp and water mass it has little to do with radiant heat sources.

I don't believe they are efficient, I have a GTP in a PVCX enclosure with a perch about 10 inches from the face and an 88ºF hot spot. Beside a second PVCx enclosure with a UTH and 88ºF hot spot. The UTH is 11w and easily holds this temp, the RHP is 40w and also holds this temp. The herpstat says the UTH runs between 20% and 0% almost all the time. The RHP runs between 20-40% most of the time. It is more power usage and a higher on time how is that more efficient? This is compounded by the terrestrial snake the RHP heats the wrong direction, top down, the set point should be the floor level making everything higher than the floor hotter than the set point. This is wasted energy. I love RHPs just not for terrestrial animals it is the wrong direction.

Do you have figures for the efficiency testing and what they were tested against? I would believe them to be more efficient than a CHE at heating surfaces as CHE heat air massively as well. But a UTH at heating a contact surface?

As to the red light, as pythons see heat, I can't Imagine them being bothered by the little red light when there is a panel beside it that emits heat they can see. Before you tell me that the heat pits aren't eyes check your anatomy. The heat pits are processed in the optical enters of their brains the same place as their eyes are so they 'see' heat. There is a recent study of how sharp an image it produces. (http://phys.org/news76249412.html)

It's a vague question in the sense that every set up is different. I use repti bark on in my enclosure but repticarpet in the hot hide secured on all sides so he can't burrow and in a glass tank with a zoomed uth and a thermostat I have my thermostat at 104, my glass temp is 98 and my surface temp above the carpet is 90. Why do much heat loss who knows but I just had to fiddle with it to get it right and that's what most have to do. If you keep your hot hide surface temp as close to 90 as possible and the rest of the enclosures ambient temp around 80 your golden. At night I keep the same temps using a moonlight bulb and a che on a thermostat. I do know my glass temp is high but he can't get to it so I'm not worried

I guess its all depends on what works for the persons type of enclosure. It's still great to have this discussion about it, It's all great info to me. I enjoy it very much and appreciate kicking thoughts and ideas around .....I understand the UTH method and how it could be looked at compared to a natural setting, but I don't think its that dire to have a belly heat pad that comes up from the floor steady all day......is it fine, absolutly if it works for that setup. I'm starting to feel there is more than one way to take care of BP's depending on what the cage is like and other methods are fine. I don't think a RHP is creating a basking area as much as its just heating one side of the cage and the rest of the cage takes on a cooler temps as you get away from it. Any hot spot is a basking area of some sort isn't it, it doesn't matter ? I read that these snakes do not bask on hot surfaces...they just need a certain air temp . You can't get away from the sun heating the top of a hide or the ground (RHP). Mine will lay on a hotter area if it wants to. As for his hide....its like a hole they would be in in nature....its only heated from the top....that takes on a certain temp after a while and he's happy. His entire inside hide is 88 heated from the top including his belly . If he needs to cool off....he can move to the cooler side. In a PVC cage that can't get up to temp with heat tape.....I would say the RHP would be fine. It may use more power but it has more power to get temps up....unlike the tape in my setting.....It's sort of weak and annoying because the tape keeps peeling off (foil tape). Like I said....until I'm told that's just RHP is absolutely wrong and a UTH is a must....I will absolutly look at running my floor heat also for steady belly heat. One thing I was thinking also....was to run the UTH and RHP off of one thermostat and put the probe in the middle of the cage. As of now....the snake is fine and is acting normal....he just ate also. OH and thanks kitedom......I enjoy your info....greatly appreciated and will taken into consideration.

I would like to add some more info about RHP. Some say they do not heat the air and this is probably very true, but everyone strives to get a certain ambient air temperature in the cage. What difference does it make what the air temperature is if the RHP has heated everything around it, including the snake, to the same temperature and maybe even a little more depending on the object. The snake can't lose any body heat because it can't transfer to anything colder around it. Unless he moves to a colder area of the cage. A snake doesn't live in an environment with forced hot air heating....He lives in an environment that is heated by the suns radiant heat from above. Why not use only a RHP in the PVC cage from above if it works. Not that UTH is bad....it's radiant heat but I can't get enough energy out of it from under the outside of the cage. Thanks in advance for any feedback and thoughts.

Snakes have a very large lung, it is quite long and runs past the heart, liver, and all the major circulatory system. Cool air in the lung chills the blood and drops the core temp. As a snake gets bigger simply laying on a warmed surface is not enough, they need correct air temps not just surface temps. The issue with an RHP is misunderstanding, people believe that measuring ambient air temps by sticking a thermometer under the RHP is accurate, it is not the probe surface temp is all that is being measured. Often they are used to raise ambient air temps this is often not accomplished and over and over I have seen snakes stop eating, and start becoming less and less healthy. only to discover a RHP 'heating' the air 10 or 15ºF over the room temp. Only it isn't doing this at all, it is heating the air 2-5ºF over background and that in the cases I have seen is not enough.


They are expensive and not efficient used this way, and often don't do what people think they do. You have suggested an RHP as a sole heat source to someone whom has dialled in a UTH, as a better source when it does exactly the same thing and offers nothing to the OP but spend his/her money. The temps are corrected the cool temp is fine what is the reason for changing?

You have offered no data on why it is more efficient compared to a UTH. You have claimed that you cannot heat through PVCx and you can. I do so using far less power. More over as things get closer to the panel they get hotter, therefore you end up compromising the temperature to keep things reasonable. When I had a RHP in a terrestrial snake the hide top was 94ºF and the floor was only 88ºF I would have preferred 90ºF on the floor but that raised the hide roof to 98ºF and that is hotter than I want to see anything inside the enclosure.

My room is 70 far side of my cage is 76 in the far corner. I never said a RHP is more efficient. I said it had more horsepower, meaning it's a stronger device and uses more power. I never spent anyone's money nor told them to. I just let people know my setup and what they take from it is fine. The heated objects in the cage are heating the air in the cage obviously. If I hang a probe, it reads more than room temp. 88 is fine inside a hide, a black hide will get warmer. As long as they can go to a hot 90 they are good. I'll take your advice and put it in my head. It's all spot on but being super critical with these numbers isn't me. If the range of heat is there. I feel good about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still studying and kicking thoughts around with people. Thanks.

To kidedemon The OP said he was at 85 on a UTH in a PVC cage that we found out later it was in fact a PVC cage, we all agreed his heat should be at 88 for a young BP ok done. I took my time to let him know that I s.witched to only a RHP on the back far corner of my 36x24x12 PVC. We agreed they cost a little more and I was saying it has more power to heat than the tape in my cage. I'm only offering my setup to the OP, and also taking in thoughts from others.. You told me a RHP does not heat the air of the cage and puts cold air into the large lungs of a BP.....OK, fine. Here is a photo of my Cage running a 40 watt RHP only at 86. The floor readings in the hot spot are 88-91.....as you move to the left side of the cage the far corner floor is 76. If you hang a probe from the top of the cage....not under the RHP, my air temp is now reading 82...here is an immediate picture for you. Oh...my room temp is now 70. This is why I suggested that the OP may want to consider a RHP in his cage.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjzecpwmu.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswrdgwgdm.jpg

Also....as you can see the heat tape thermostat is not on and has not been for seven days just before my snake ate last.....Remember that enclosures must allow for a proper thermal gradient that the ball python can utilize, with a hotspot on one end of the enclosure and a cool spot on the other. Provide your ball python with a basking spot temperature of 88 to 96 degrees Fahrenheit and an ambient temperature of 78 to 80 degrees. The ambient temperature should not fall below 75 degrees. Nothing says the inside of his hide has to be the hot spot for the snake to collect belly heat....My setup has a hide that is a above the average ambient temperature...The snake has an available 90-91 degree spot in front of his hide and mostly on top of the large black hide (like a basking shelf if you will)...here he can do the belly heat thing when he feels like it. He pooped today and I'm sure he will eat when I feed him soon. RHP rules !!!!

This is exactly my point, from the image your probe looks like it is likely in line of sight of the IR radiation coming from the RHP. This means would mean your 'air' temp is actually a surface temp and your air temp starting at 70ºF and add 3 or 4 degrees is bare minimum and if your room drops a few degrees you are opening the snake up to RI.

They heat hot spots perfectly well no arguments, arboreal set ups more efficiently, but in rooms under 74ºF they need help to lift the ambient temps up. You are claiming a 12ºF lift in air temps? How then do others use RHP in rooms heated to the high 70ºF with out over heating the enclosure air? Does anyone ever say that room is too hot for an RHP? EVER see that? no you don't. My enclosures with RHPs one is 30x24x18 the only place out of line of sight of the RHP is the top corner the entire bottom is effected by the RHP as the bottom is warmer than the room temp. The same as you have described, you are not suggesting that heat is conducted from the hot spot to the cool spot, so clearly the enclosure is altered by something else, the RHP is heating the floor, it is in line of sight. Check your air temp not the probe surface temp. You probe for air temp would need to be close to the top not the floor, loosely 10 inches from the RHP and about level with the face. Hot air rises so this 'should' be hotter than your 82 correct? Check it.

I have too many time recently helped treat snakes with RI in an enclosure in a cool room with a RHP that is 'heating' the air 10-30ºF (magically that varies when the room temp increases but the hot spot stays the same)

Lets ask a second question did you notice when you switched a large drop in your humidity with the RHP?