Poo disaster and first shed

Clearly you have a humidity issue. The poo looks fine when you see liquid and solid pee it is just the snake is well hydrated, in the wild in Africa water conservation in the snake is critical, in captivity with a water bowl it isn't much of an issue so they often have extra and expel it as needed.

Humidity is a bit complex. RH is a variable measure it changes with temperature. The amount of water the snake needs to shed is a constant. You need more humidity, I am not a fan of paper towels, they actually draw humidity from the air (hydroscopic) and hold it away, there has been recorded cases of snakes eating paper towel and it causing death. To my knowledge it is the only substrate known to kill. I don't think there is a big upside so any risk is not worth the advantages IMO. Coco coir, and cyprus hold a lot of water and will add a great amount to your humidity. A larger water bowl will also help and if you can post a picture of the vent holes I might be able to offer a change of location that also can help humidity.

If you post you typical ambient air temps I can suggest a RH% that will work for your shed issues. The question you should be thinking of is what is the % Rh is of? The saturation point of the water is what the % is of, it varies with ambient temps as the air is cooler than 80ºF you need more than 60%. As the temp increases over 80ºF you don't actually need 60%.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Clearly you have a humidity issue. The poo looks fine when you see liquid and solid pee it is just the snake is well hydrated, in the wild in Africa water conservation in the snake is critical, in captivity with a water bowl it isn't much of an issue so they often have extra and expel it as needed.

Humidity is a bit complex. RH is a variable measure it changes with temperature. The amount of water the snake needs to shed is a constant. You need more humidity, I am not a fan of paper towels, they actually draw humidity from the air (hydroscopic) and hold it away, there has been recorded cases of snakes eating paper towel and it causing death. To my knowledge it is the only substrate known to kill. I don't think there is a big upside so any risk is not worth the advantages IMO. Coco coir, and cyprus hold a lot of water and will add a great amount to your humidity. A larger water bowl will also help and if you can post a picture of the vent holes I might be able to offer a change of location that also can help humidity.

If you post you typical ambient air temps I can suggest a RH% that will work for your shed issues. The question you should be thinking of is what is the % Rh is of? The saturation point of the water is what the % is of, it varies with ambient temps as the air is cooler than 80ºF you need more than 60%. As the temp increases over 80ºF you don't actually need 60%.

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I was using aspen but the snake who made feces in the picture was making them everyday and they were under the aspen so I had to clean the tub completely each time. I switched to reduce stress on the snake from cleaning so often.
My acurites in both tubs say ambients are 79-81%. They were reading that humidity was anywhere from 70 to 99% at one point and I drilled a lot of holes and tested until I got it to read at 60-70%
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Sorry if this is a dumb quetion, but what is RH?


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RH is relative humidity.

that is curious your ambient (where did you measure that from?) is fine so your humidity is also fine.

Your absolute humidity is in the 15.5-16gm/m3 area and you should not be having bad sheds. I would absolutely have fecals run. I actually do mine every year, a few years back I had frozen rats tested and found that my supply was tainted and that freezing is often not cold enough or long enough to kill all eggs. I have been assuming that sooner or later even with F/T I will see parasites. I have in fact had on two occasions an animal that passed a dual yearly test fail after a couple of years I can only assume that it came from the rats.

Assuming that the hygrometer is sort of accurate. Many digitals have a very wide allowable range.

I'm not sure what you mean by where I measured from. In the last picture, you can see my acurite, that's how I get my temps and where I always have it placed. It has three settings, a minimum, a middle (normal) and a maximum I've been going by the middle.
As far as my feeders go, the only problem I've seen is that sometimes the ends of tails seem to be stiff (but not from being frozen) if I buy f/t from a chain pet store. There is a reptile specialty store that has better. feeders, but it's an hour out if the way. I had to feed from the chain store because I had to the better f/t.
The pastel almost got all her she off but there was some on her neck and the end of her tail so I helped with a damp paper towel. I soaked the pinstripe and I got the second eye cap off and a little more of the shed. I stopped so he wouldn't get sick from being soaked too long. it seems to be an entire body stuck shed.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Citrus

the ends of tails seem to be stiff (but not from being frozen) if I buy f/t from a chain pet store. There I had to feed from the chain store because I had to throw out the better f/t.

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Fixed the end of this paragraph.. Lol sorry



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Ok, one of the important measurements is the ambient air temp. This in a rack could be taken from the middle section of the middle tub about halfway off the floor. The goal is to measure the temperature of the air, rather than the surfaces. Placing a probe on a surface is influenced by the surface. When looking at the temp generally this is an important measurement. When looking at humidity the air temp, not the surfaces matter. You don't need to always keep a probe there but it should be measured every now and again at least. If you can check now we can get back to the humidity issue.

Did you do a test to check the hygrometer? What temperature is the room the rack is in?

IMO the ambient air temp is as important as the hot side surface the one I don't bother with is the cool side surface. If the air temp is fine there is not much chance the cool side surface would be massively behind.

It is back to appearing like a humidity issue as I suspect your ambient air temps are low so even at 70% you don't have enough humidity in the air for a good shed.

I has to be one of four things; the air temperature is low, the hygrometer is grossly wrong, , the animal is sick or stressed, or there are parasites. The most common is the temperature we use relative humidity as a measurement but it is a poor one, it allows a massive variation, 90% RH at a cold temp may have 9 gm of water, but 90% at a hot temperature may have 339gm. It is massively different yet both are 90%RH. It is like me saying I want a 10% deposit and not telling you how much the product is. 10% of 1$ is 10¢ or 10% of 1000000 is $100000 There is a huge difference between 10¢ and $100000! Yet both are 10% we always need to know of what a % is. Hence the temperature.

I have had three suppliers checked what I found is simple on the five occasions I checked at one point or another all of the suppliers I use rats had internal parasites. Unless you keep your freezer at 19ºF and hold feeders in the freezer for 60+ days if there is parasites they could be transferred. I actually do two fecals per snake once a year. So far (over 7 years) I have had 3 snakes positive for parasites one came up positive this year, after that animal had been checked 12 times. The parasites 100% came from the rats he has been eating.

I just gave him his second soaking and I feel so bad because I'm sure he's stressed. On the upside I managed to get nearly all the dry shed off this time, except for his tail which I know can be dangerous but he started urinating on me so I cleaned him off and dried him and put him back in his tub.
The room that the rack is in (my bedroom) is 75-80*. I made adjustments so it would be closer to 80* several weeks ago. The racks ambients are 79-80*. One thing to note, I don't mist the tub because that causes it to get too humid (unless my hygro is off) and the sides condensate too much. I know I need more humidity, but I also don't want it I get too high. I'm building a bigger rack to house them in. Do you think 28qt is too big for a 90g. He's undersized.
I'm doing the salt test now. I may end up spending the money on a better hygrometer.
I'm going to allow for another bowel movement and if it still looks bad I'm going to contact a vet.


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The salt test says that it's -2* off, but it's only been about 12 hours. I'll check again when I get home from classes. If I switch to newspaper, can/should spray it? Won't the ink run?


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Ink does transfer, I am not a fan of newspaper either, I would try aspen, coco coir, cyprus, myself.

Here is the thing, if you are seeing 60-70% and the hygrometer is accurate (basically) and you have basically high 70s-80s ambient in the tub it isn't likely to be a humidity issue but something else. Stress would be the easiest guess.

That said if you have a temp of 74ºF air in the tub then 60%RH is far too low, 70% is also too low @ 74ºF you would need closer to 75-80% IF the air is around 74ºF inside the tub. If the air is warmer you need proportionally less. @ 80ºF you need 60% for good sheds. That changes.

Condensation means only one thing, the walls of the tub are cooler than the dew point, nothing more.

For example if we use 74ºF as an ambient temp, we need 74% min to get the 15.5gm/m3 of water (absolute humidity) needed for a good shed in a healthy animal. With this amount of humidity the dew point is 65ºF, this increases as the amount of water in the air increases. At 100%RH (the maximum amount of water the air can carry at a given temperature) you will get condensation at anything below the ambient air temp.

Have you adjusted how you measured the ambient temp? How was your last reading done?

My experiences with a rack is they sit very close to the room temps add a degree maybe two. Too many variables exist to make a solid statement, by my experience is they do not hold ambients well at all. Plastic tubs are a terrible insulator.

I am doubtful your snakes are ill, if they are feeding fine this is not likely. Parasites are always a possibility and I believe in regular checks anyway. This leads me back to the air temp in the tub. The evidence to me points to a ambient in and around 74-76ºF but you say it is higher closer to 80ºF, something feels a mis here, the numbers you have given are perfect but a bad shed demonstrates either a larger serious issue or that there is an error somewhere. I am not there I can't say either way.

The way you are measuring the air temp could be an issue the probe should not be touching floors or walls for an air temp reading and should not be over the heater nor near the coolest wall. The thermometer itself could be off accretes unless they have changed allow 2ºC +/- (that is almost 4ºF over or under the reading is acceptable according to accurite) Something isn't adding up here.

I use the probe for the hotspot incase my tstat has a mistake down the line. The acurite itself has a second temp display that shows the ambients were the actual unit is placed, as well as the humidity. That's how I've been taking ambients. I'm going to move it to the middle of the tubs tonight after feeding so they won't knock it over
My rack is closed on both sides and the back, then with the uth this creates kind if a warm pocket in the back of the rack. I think this is why the acurite reads at a constant 79*-80* ambients.
My pastel who had a better shed but not a perfect one had higher humidity and aspen. Her humidity was 75%-80% but everything I read and was told was that 80% was too high and would lead to RI.
If stress could cause it, the pinstripe does seem to stress extremely easy compared to my pastel.


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