Pastel vs Fire

My initial " thoughts " were top one - Pastels ..... bottom one Fires ...... The rest look all manner of morphs and some of them in shed mode ...:)

Got any good links with reading information, preferable with example pictures? Seriously, I am a research fiend and I've been googling my butt off but I can't find anything with specific comparisons. Like I said, It's not when the snake is a good representative of its respective morph that I have trouble, that part is easy.

I think part of my trouble has come from looking at posts where people ask if they got a pastel from the pet store (which is what it was sold to them as) and three or four chime and go, "Oh, that's a fire!" I'm not seeing it when that happens and that's made me question everything.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeEye

The "line" is not what to look for. That is not even an identifying trait of what a Pastel is. A pastel is yellow/orange in color. Even a low quality baby can't be mistaken as anything other than a low quality pastel. Fire's are a bit tricky because a low quality one can look like a normal to the untrained eye. But distinguishing a Pastel from a Fire is very easy. Continue to look up pictures and you'll learn the difference.

PASTEL:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/pastel/

FIRE:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/fire/

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That's kinda odd as the 'default' pics on both links weren't as I expected .

Meaning ... The first didn't look like any Pastel I've come across and the second link didn't look like a Fire . Just referring to the default pix on each link not the ones you can move onto.

There lies the problem with our beloved Royals which is there are sooooo many flamin' morphs and many appear to overlap .
There is a thread on a different forum talking about a Royal morph photo and no two people can even agree on what the hell it is :)

Incidentally , I'm not slagging Royals off as I love the little beauties .

( I've got a matching non-related pair of HC Albinos and a stunningly bright looking female Pastel )

I mean I guess the sure fire (lol fire) way is to put two snake together and see if they come out super pastels, fireflies, or BELs haha.

This thread surprises me a bit as these morphs look very different to me, but I've been doing this a long time. I would suggest you continue to look at photos and pay attention to their color and the markings/color on top of their heads first. I think if you look at blushing and flames first it may throw you off on some.

Dave has it right. Pay attention to overall body color and head coloring, not the blushing and flames. Pastels are always more "yellow" and fires are more "cream". Even as babies, when fires can be neon yellow, if you put them side by side you have no trouble telling them apart -once- you know what to look for. And therin lies the problem. Lots of people with less experience identify a photo as fire or vanilla or pastel, when that isn't what the snake pictured is. My advise to you is the same I gave myself. Look at every photo you can find from established breeders that have their snakes properly labeled. Frequent every reptile show you can and see them in person, because even the best picture is not the same as seeing in person. Keep studying the similarities and differences between the morphs, quiz yourself when on a breeder's site. Can you identify the morph correctly without the breeder's notes? It does take time. This is not something you learn in a day or week or even a month. Even though I breed fires, vanillas and pastels, I still see pictures now and then that I really have to stop and study carefully to decide which morph it is. And yes even in person one will make me scratch my head from time to time.

One bonus of all the hard work is, it's a lot harder for someone to "put one over on you" and sell you a snake they claim is one thing when you can clearly tell it isn't.

Just keep at it, eventually you will acquire the "eye" for morphs all the experienced people seem to have been born with.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That's kinda odd as the 'default' pics on both links weren't as I expected .

Meaning ... The first didn't look like any Pastel I've come across and the second link didn't look like a Fire . Just referring to the default pix on each link not the ones you can move onto.

There lies the problem with our beloved Royals which is there are sooooo many flamin' morphs and many appear to overlap .
There is a thread on a different forum talking about a Royal morph photo and no two people can even agree on what the hell it is :)

Incidentally , I'm not slagging Royals off as I love the little beauties .

( I've got a matching non-related pair of HC Albinos and a stunningly bright looking female Pastel )

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The photos in the links I posted are perfect examples of each morph, even the first pictures. I am no master ball python breeder but I am knowledgable enough to know A from B. When it comes to ball pythons, identifying morphs up to 2-3 gene combos are easy once you learn the morphs. It gets tricky when you start producing 4-5 gene animals. Keep researching and you'll soon learn.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

I mean I guess the sure fire (lol fire) way is to put two snake together and see if they come out super pastels, fireflies, or BELs haha.

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That is a sure fire way considering you produce the combos. But before breeding, you should learn to be able to differentiate. I promise it's not hard to tell a Fire from a Pastel. They are completely different morphs. If you can't distinguish the single genes, it may be just as hard to distinguish the combos.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

This thread surprises me a bit as these morphs look very different to me, but I've been doing this a long time. I would suggest you continue to look at photos and pay attention to their color and the markings/color on top of their heads first. I think if you look at blushing and flames first it may throw you off on some.

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Dave nailed it perfectly.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeEye

The photos in the links I posted are perfect examples of each morph, even the first pictures..





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I wasn't doubting all the photos in the link ... I referred to the 'default' pix in each link .... ie the first picture that pops up on each link ... Maybe the default photo changes each day ??

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I wasn't doubting all the photos in the link ... I referred to the 'default' pix in each link .... ie the first picture that pops up on each link ... Maybe the default photo changes each day ??

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I understand you. I'm just saying that the pics posted are fine examples. So if they look odd to you, perhaps you've been seeing bad pictures elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeEye

I understand you. I'm just saying that the pics posted are fine examples. So if they look odd to you, perhaps you've been seeing bad pictures elsewhere.

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Yeah that's what I suspect is adding to the confusion. It's why I was looking for some sort of "look for these characteristics" guideline so I could hone my observation skills. Just saying "oh, look until you figure it out!" doesn't help me if I don't know what I'm looking for in the first place.