Rejoining

Just because nothing happened yet doesn't mean it can't. Before I knew much about proper exotics husbandry and equipment (this was over six years ago) I had a burrowing frog in a tank with a heat pad and no thermostat. She lived in it for almost a year before it went haywire one day and ran over 100 degrees. She's fine now but had various health problems for over a year after that. I wish that one of the sources I had looked to had told me I needed a thermostat.
Just last week my parents, who had much the same view on thermostats as you, called asking why one of their snakes was coiled in the water bowl for two days. I told them it was probably the heat pad, and when they checked they told me a section of the heat pad was reading about 120. Luckily this snake was smart enough to get in its water dish so there were no burns.

I'm a member on about five forums for completely different species and the one piece of advice you'll get on every one of them is that you shouldn't use a heat pad w/o a thermostat.

I hate to beat this dead horse but I just cannot see how that heat mat is staying 90f....measured on glass underneath substrate. That's impossible unless you aren't using the heat mat. I got out my small zoomed and put it unregulated under my spare 10 gallon tank we use for live feeders sometimes. Measured on the glass under the substrate (where you are supposed to measure it) it was 106 after 10 min and 109 after 20. It is a new mat that I just never used cuz I changed to Flexwatt. On top of 2" of substrate it was 98...after 10 minutes and 101 after 20 min. I guess if I piled 4 inches of substrate over it and prayed my baby never decided to burrow it would measure lower. SMH


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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Just because nothing happened yet doesn't mean it can't. Before I knew much about proper exotics husbandry and equipment (this was over six years ago) I had a burrowing frog in a tank with a heat pad and no thermostat. She lived in it for almost a year before it went haywire one day and ran over 100 degrees. She's fine now but had various health problems for over a year after that. I wish that one of the sources I had looked to had told me I needed a thermostat.
Just last week my parents, who had much the same view on thermostats as you, called asking why one of their snakes was coiled in the water bowl for two days. I told them it was probably the heat pad, and when they checked they told me a section of the heat pad was reading about 120. Luckily this snake was smart enough to get in its water dish so there were no burns.

I'm a member on about five forums for completely different species and the one piece of advice you'll get on every one of them is that you shouldn't use a heat pad w/o a thermostat.

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It's just so confusing, this forum says thermostats are a must and tell me stories like yours. But others I know and have talked to who own animals who need heat pads do not use thermostats and have no problems. Do understand why I might be a little confused?


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Originally Posted by calmolly1

I hate to beat this dead horse but I just cannot see how that heat mat is staying 90f....measured on glass underneath substrate. That's impossible unless you aren't using the heat mat. I got out my small zoomed and put it unregulated under my spare 10 gallon tank we use for live feeders sometimes. Measured on the glass under the substrate (where you are supposed to measure it) it was 106 after 10 min and 109 after 20. It is a new mat that I just never used cuz I changed to Flexwatt. On top of 2" of substrate it was 98...after 10 minutes and 101 after 20 min. I guess if I piled 4 inches of substrate over it and prayed my baby never decided to burrow it would measure lower. SMH


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Yes underneath it is about 120f. But on top with a few layers of paper towel it stays at 90-92f. The paper towel stays down and Marshall does not burrow because the hide I have is heavy.


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Originally Posted by gameonpython

It's just so confusing, this forum says thermostats are a must and tell me stories like yours. But others I know and have talked to who own animals who need heat pads do not use thermostats and have no problems. Do understand why I might be a little confused?


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I understand why you're confused. Sometimes a heatpad can go years without malfunctioning (if ever) like mine did, and sometimes it'll malfunction right off the bat like my parents' did. Sometimes the temps may not be hot enough to burn, but might still be hot enough to throw off an animal's internal chemistry (I know it can wreck a frog's kidneys long before a burn happens). Someone who's never had a malfunction is a lot more likely to say you don't need one, but if you keep reptiles long enough you'll see it happen. Your BP could live up to 40 years, so the odds of it happening at least once during that time are quite high.

Edit: It doesn't always have to be a malfunction. Even just running normally can get too hot.

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Originally Posted by Sir Hognose

Welcome back. Good that Marshall is doing well. I'll have you know that Richard "Crunchy" Edward (my blue tongue) is also doing fine under his nice thermostatted care. Hmmph.
Commence the bickering!
:sabduel:

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Incredibly off topic but Sir Hognose, I didn't know we had that emoticon and it has made my day.

As I have said before, everyone on this thread will tell you to get a thermostat. But like Deborah said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Obviously you are too stubborn to listen to any of us, so people are less likely to give advice and suggestions if you aren't going to listen to them.

On a side note, did you get your ambient temperatures figured out and has your snake eaten yet?

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

As I have said before, everyone on this thread will tell you to get a thermostat. But like Deborah said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Obviously you are too stubborn to listen to any of us, so people are less likely to give advice and suggestions if you aren't going to listen to them.

On a side note, did you get your ambient temperatures figured out and has your snake eaten yet?

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His ambient temps are fine, and feeding is scheduled for Tuesday.


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Originally Posted by gameonpython

His ambient temps are fine, and feeding is scheduled for Tuesday.


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what are the ambient temps? How can you tell if your digital thermometer is broken?

What other kinds of animals are you getting advice for? The reason I ask is because all reptiles are not the same in their requirements or tolerance of heat. Many people unfamiliar with each specific species simply aren't educated to make informed recommendations (or, worse, they think they are and still make generic recommendations). Off the top of my head, bearded dragons can tolerate upwards of 110 F, uromastyx upwards of 120 F, and leopard geckos are closer to BPs at 90 F. A heat mat, for better or worse, is designed for all of these animals in mind. For this reason, thermostats are recommended for the lower temperature-tolerant species (such as ball pythons), whereas they're not as critical for others.

Take this information for what you will, but a heat mat doesn't care if you have a ball python or a uromastyx - it will still reach the same temperature for both if left to its own accord. It's up to us to fine tune it, through the use of a thermostat, for the pets we choose to keep.