Dosage of Baytril

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Originally Posted by chrisv

I, for one, am eager to hear how this works out and with the OP luck with the treatment.

Last month I had a BP in at the UNC school of veterinary medicine's exotics clinic for a RI. The vet told me that there are many cases when a trachea wash and culture is not practical and that he is not at all opposed to exploratory treatment with broad spectrum antibiotics. He explained that with 30 days of this treatment the majority of RIs will resolve.

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At least the "high horses" comment was edited out!

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Originally Posted by chrisv

I, for one, am eager to hear how this works out and with the OP luck with the treatment.

Last month I had a BP in at the UNC school of veterinary medicine's exotics clinic for a RI. The vet told me that there are many cases when a trachea wash and culture is not practical and that he is not at all opposed to exploratory treatment with broad spectrum antibiotics. He explained that with 30 days of this treatment the majority of RIs will resolve.

People might consider dismounting their high horses.

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And for many cases it works, though Baytril isn't exactly broad spectrum any more. If the OP were going with Baytril + Fortaz or Baytril + Naxcel to target both gram-pos and gram-neg bacteria then I could see the point.

The OP also described this as a "lingering RI", and if the snake has had Baytril treatments for it in the recent past, the bacteria that are left are very likely resistant. Or, in a worse scenario, the underlying cause may be viral and not bacterial; several of the PMV's can present as on-again off-again RI's before the snake eventually succumbs to the disease.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

And for many cases it works, though Baytril isn't exactly broad spectrum any more. If the OP were going with Baytril + Fortaz or Baytril + Naxcel to target both gram-pos and gram-neg bacteria then I could see the point.

The OP also described this as a "lingering RI", and if the snake has had Baytril treatments for it in the recent past, the bacteria that are left are very likely resistant. Or, in a worse scenario, the underlying cause may be viral and not bacterial; several of the PMV's can present as on-again off-again RI's before the snake eventually succumbs to the disease.

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It would have been very helpful for people to have suggested these combos as potential exploratory treatments, rather than simply jump on this person. There must be some degree of pragmatism when it comes to veterinary care. Presented with the option of spending $300+ to treat a snake that for all we know might be a normal he rescued from a petshop that had no intention of treating it, I might be inclined to try an exploratory treatment myself.

...and yes, I do think that there is a fair amount of high horse riding that goes on....but i did edit my comment because plenty of tantrums are had as well.

Well think of it this way, if you got sick with an illness that potentially could kill you and if left untreated would most likely kill you, would you want to go to the doctor or would you just line up some antibiotics, a needle and some answers from people on the internet that you have no idea their credentials. Then inject yourself with these antibiotics and see what happens. You might live, you might overdose and die, you might not cure yourself, who knows.

The thing is an animal in your care cannot say "im hurt" or "I need a doctor" or "im sick". They depend on us for everything. I think what most people are saying is if you are gonna buy an animal or even adopt/rescue one, be sure you can actually take care of it which involves vets. Buying the animal is actually the cheapest part of the whole process. Feeding, housing, maintenance, health care are the expensive parts but most people don't think about that.

I'm really not sure how you can say people are on a "high horse" by advising the OP to see a vet instead of trying to play doctor with medicine that he/she doesn't even know the dosage amounts much less whether it will even treat the problem. Baytril is very rough on an animals system so its not like something you want to just throw at them. Some animals take it better, while some take it much worse and some can even have adverse effects and can die from it. For one it kills pretty much all the gut flora aka good bacteria in the animals stomach so I hope the OP has reptile probiotic. It also dehydrates them very much as well as most of the time kill their appetite, upset their stomach and possibly cause lethargy in some animals. When I was giving it to my bearded dragon for enterobacter(vet did a culture), she took it pretty well but I had to syringe baby food to her, give her daily bathes and keep her extra warm as well as mix in reptile probiotics into her baby food daily.

So to the OP, don't think you are just gonna give baytril daily for 10-30 days and do nothing else because you will probably end up with a more sick snake than you got now and possibly worse if it turns out that the RI is from a virus instead of bacteria since baytril doesn't work on viruses. Anyways good luck.

Ok, lets look at this from a different perspective. If all the good advice you are being given for a pet out of love, and because you love your pet, then look at the investment end, add all the time and money you have invested and is it worth trying to save the small sum a vet would charge. Here on long island just to walk into a vet is 200 dollars, but it is nothing to what i have invested in time, money, and emotional involvment with my animals. If all the emotional persuasion is not enough then maybe the monitary investment will convience you to take this poor baby to a vet. I was a vet tech for 15 years when i was younger and can do a lot at home but i will never self diagnose any of my own animals, too much room for errors.

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Originally Posted by chrisv

It would have been very helpful for people to have suggested these combos as potential exploratory treatments, rather than simply jump on this person.

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It's not about the combos and the various options, or the dosage, it's about the basics of taking the animal to a qualified herp vet and getting a culture done, which you would know if you had read through the links I have posted.

RI might also not be the only problems there are other things first present themselves with a RI, again you cannot know without seeing a vet, and vets do not do diagnostic online.

Coming on a forum seeking proper dosage for treatment when you don't know what you are dealing with is as useless as people using home remedy such as vicks vapor rubs for RI :rolleyes:

Makes me wonder if your dog or cat get sick do you give them just any medicine you have on hands or do you actually get a diagnosis and give them the appropriate medicine that will specifically target the problem?

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Originally Posted by chrisv

It would have been very helpful for people to have suggested these combos as potential exploratory treatments, rather than simply jump on this person. There must be some degree of pragmatism when it comes to veterinary care. Presented with the option of spending $300+ to treat a snake that for all we know might be a normal he rescued from a petshop that had no intention of treating it, I might be inclined to try an exploratory treatment myself.

...and yes, I do think that there is a fair amount of high horse riding that goes on....but i did edit my comment because plenty of tantrums are had as well.

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+1

this reminds me of a thread on the motorcycle forums i frequent. There was a guy on there that was a ex bike thief, and offered his knowledge to answer any questions other might have in regards to how to best protect your bike from being stolen. Of course most of the people on the board jumped all over him calling him all types of names and what not. I mean the guy regrets his past and is trying to help, none the less, people were still bashing him instead of just getting his help. I know i just asked away...

Now for those people bashing, ever seen the movie 28 days later? In the beginning those animal activist that released those monkeys with the rage virus even though the scientist TOLD them that they were infected, they still let them go because it was the "right" thing to do. THATS YOU

My point is, OK the guy should DEF take his BP to a vet, i know i would, i have been with Vic for 5 years, and i have spent tons of money on him and his ritz hotel of a enclosure with all the gadgets and decor to have a perfect husbandry, and yes, i would take him to the vet no matter what if need be. But he already said he will not be taking his BP to the vet, so instead of bashing him, either give him advice or keep it moving. If you dont know how administer the shot or the dosage, then just move on the the next post!

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

+1

this reminds me of a thread on the motorcycle forums i frequent. There was a guy on there that was a ex bike thief, and offered his knowledge to answer any questions other might have in regards to how to best protect your bike from being stolen. Of course most of the people on the board jumped all over him calling him all types of names and what not. I mean the guy regrets his past and is trying to help, none the less, people were still bashing him instead of just getting his help. I know i just asked away...

Now for those people bashing, ever seen the movie 28 days later? In the beginning those animal activist that released those monkeys with the rage virus even though the scientist TOLD them that they were infected, they still let them go because it was the "right" thing to do. THATS YOU

My point is, OK the guy should DEF take his BP to a vet, i know i would, i have been with Vic for 5 years, and i have spent tons of money on him and his ritz hotel of a enclosure with all the gadgets and decor to have a perfect husbandry, and yes, i would take him to the vet no matter what if need be. But he already said he will not be taking his BP to the vet, so instead of bashing him, either give him advice or keep it moving. If you dont know how administer the shot or the dosage, then just move on the the next post!

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What a load.

We are helping!!! We are telling the OP that they need to take the snake to a vet. Baytril may not be the correct medicine. Just because it works sometimes doesn't mean it will always work. a Culture IS REQUIRED before medicine be given. It's not an option. If the OP manages to figure out the "correct" dose of Baytril and gives it to his snake "correctly" then all he has done was guess. Yes, it may be fine and heal perfectly. It also may not heal, it may get worse - and DIE. Another option is that the OP gives the snakes Baytril incorrectly (since they have no culture) creating a snake that has resistance to the bacteria. Then, as time goes on the snake gets another RI and now it cannot be treated using Baytril because the OPs snake is resistant.... guess what, it DIES!

So don't come on here and make up ^%#^# like that. What is going on by the OP is abusive and disgusting. If you cannot pay to take the living animal to see the doctor, then give it away for free to someone else who can take care of it. No pet deserves to be self medicated. Absolutely 110% WRONG!!!

Actually to plays devils advocate, it takes awhile for any germs to build up resistance to antibiotics. It wouldn't happen after a month or 2 of treatments and even if it did become resistant, there are other antibiotics that can be use used. Regardless though, I still stick by my other posts and most of them here and say you need a vet as like I said, baytril is strong and can hurt an animal just as well as help it and again it is useless against viruses which can also show up as RI.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Actually to plays devils advocate, it takes awhile for any germs to build up resistance to antibiotics. It wouldn't happen after a month or 2 of treatments and even if it did become resistant, there are other antibiotics that can be use used. Regardless though, I still stick by my other posts and most of them here and say you need a vet as like I said, baytril is strong and can hurt an animal just as well as help it and again it is useless against viruses which can also show up as RI.

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If it is still there after 2 months of treatment then it had to have been resistant in the first place.