TSC Pine Shavings...

I've used it before, never had an issue, except I don't like the way the pine andnrat urine smell mixes. I would go back to it though if I couldn't get what I'm using now anymore.

I use the TSC pine and I like the flakes much better than the fine. It seems like the fine will clump up and pack down much faster than the flakes.
I'm not impressed with the pine for keeping down on smell. What are the downsides to using cedar? I picked up a bag from TSC and it wasn't a lot more than pine ($7 vs $5.50) The cedar was a little less material also since it wasn't compressed as much as the pine. I would think cedar would help with the smell better than pine. I know to keep this from my snakes, and my rats are in a completely different location.

You cannot use cedar with rodents.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

You cannot use cedar with rodents.

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Does the pine HAVE to be kiln dried?

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Does the pine HAVE to be kiln dried?

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All pine bedding is kiln dried.

Let's clear a few things up so that we all understand what the kiln drying process does and doesn't do. It does nothing more than reduce the total moisture % from 19 or 20 down to about 15. It does not remove ALL of the moisture - so do not expect your pine bedding to be moisture free.

It does not remove all of the phenols - so do not expect your pine bedding to be phenol free.

The purpose of drying is to remove enough moisture to make the product have a shelf life - so it doesn't rot or mold while in storage.

Now there is such a thing as "air drying". Air drying actually produces a slightly superior bedding (2 to 4% more moisture reduction), sadly only a few very comparably expensive and non-commerically available manufacturers utilize these mostly custom and/or proprietary processes. There are also high temperature heat dried shavings, which are very dry, brittle and dusty AND, not easily obtained at your local feed store.

The pine shavings you buy at Petco, TS, Petsmart, Premium Pet Mart, Pet Club etc are all kiln dried. Some are even kiln dried and then nominally air dried.

Let's get back on point here. All bedding shavings are dried in some manner or another. 99% of them are kiln dried because it is the fastest and least expensive method of drying wood shavings. The idea that this is done to make a safer product for our animals is largely false. As is the idea that the amount of phenols in pine shavings pose a risk to your stock.

I know, I know. At one point someone decided to do a search on pine bedding and found an article written by someone with no medical or biological expertise that drew a shaky conclusion between pine shavings and health woes in captive animals. The article was written with enough big words and links to studies that were only tangentially relevant that a whole legion of keyboard kommandos started bleating about the dangers of pine. Now, the deadly nature of pine bedding has joined the internet mythos with the non-climbing ball, the notion that balls eat only soft furred rodents served on fine china and the idea that snakes exert dominance over each other. Here's the bottom line - all pine bedding is dried, kiln drying is the LEAST effective drying method (if drying actually does anything) and your rats will have no issues on pine bedding.

In the past, I had a line through an local equestrian center on JTS soft wood bedding - which is an air dried product. It was about double the cost (even in bulk) of buying Mallard Creek bedding and frankly, the differences were minimal. Slightly less odor and slightly drier. Not worth the added expense.

Skip is correct. There is almost no such thing as pine that is not kiln dried. I'm sure you can probably get it from a saw mill, and maybe it's fresh and not dried (sometimes?). But just smell the bag, and that's your information to tell you if your rodents can live on it. If it smells mostly like wood with a hint of pine forest, you're good. If it smells like an Christmas-tree air-freshener (or worse) with a hint of wood, not so good. The phenols are what you smell, and you have to imagine that having a nose the size of a grain of rice, and lungs the size of pinto beans. . . it translates into a lot more irritation of the upper respiratory system than it would in a human. But I mean, even keeping a human in a cage filled with cedar shavings, we'd probably get headaches and eventually suffer respiratory distress as well.

Moral of the story, pine, is absolutely fine. I haven't come across a brand yet that I think smelled too harshly to use (or even smelled much at all).

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Originally Posted by Reptile Frenzy

Been using TSC flakes for a few years now. Was having bad urine smells so started using their pelletized 40lb horse bedding. Its in a green bag and for like $5 a bag. Turns into dust after a couple days. We put that down and then spread a layer of flake on top. Works great! Have about 350 rats in our shed at the moment.

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I also add the pelletizd horse bedding and it helps to absorb the urine. I have concrete tubs and put 2 16 oz. cups on top of the flakes and then just mix it around.

I have been given to recent tips: add a bit of vanilla to the water & it lowers the potency of the urine smell (rats still drink the same amount)....seems to work for me.

There also is another horse bedding that has carbon infused in it. The price is about double ( because it's only #25 vs. #40 and a bit more $$$ out of pocket), but breeders I've talked to say it lasts almost 2 weeks. Haven't switched myself because I don't mind switching out my 5 tubs every week.... I'm checking in on them daily already :)