Getting back to bps

Love people who bring up Wobble.... Unless the snake is a train wreck is nothing to worry about. I have spider gene animals and all are just fine, Some of the nicest bugget morphs include them

-Killerbee
-Lesserbee
-Calico Lesserbee
-Stinger bee

Anything Bee just looks amazing, In the end, when you buy them youll notice the "wobble" if its bad or not. (sure it can get worse) but i havnt noticed that too often only gets a little better as it happens severly when stressed or excited (all which come down with age)

Dont start with a male, that is a awful suggestion. Get a nice female. (look for roughly 300+g) That way your in the safe side, and you dont have to upgrade tubs as fast, you could put at 300g into a 16qt and ride it until 1200ish grams, then go up.

IF your intent on the Spider/bumblee gene, try and ask to see the Parents, Alot of bee's are prone to browning out! (Search Doolittle) and look for pics of his Bee the nicest iv ever seen to date!

Looking for a quality wont always effect offspring but why not have an insanly nice bee to show off (Mine was beautiful yellow till 1800 when she slowly started to brown out:tears:)

Please don't be discouraged by people who think the "wobble" is a tragic disorder. Truth is that spiders are one of the oldest mutations and i have yet to hear of one that was incapable of living because of its wobble, ALL spiders have this neurological disorder some worst than others but it is present in every single one if you look close enough. This doesn't affect them in anyway, they will feed and breed without a problem. Good luck in your future breedings one tip that has already been mentioned is look for quality animals. Great looking parents equals great looking offspring.


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Getting a male is an aweful suggestion? Please explain why buying an animal is an awful suggestion? You obviously have your opinion on how to do things which you probably aren't smart enough to come up with on your own so you listen to others but I'm not judging...

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Originally Posted by alan12013

Getting a male is an aweful suggestion? Please explain why buying an animal is an awful suggestion? You obviously have your opinion on how to do things which you probably aren't smart enough to come up with on your own so you listen to others but I'm not judging...

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LOL lets mock intelligence. OK So simple look at this Mr.Alan. And why most people say it.

You buy a Female, you tend to breed LATER with her (18 months to 2 years ROUGLY)

Now buying her young you can get a nice bumblebee for lets say 300$ just for a number!

2 years down the road she is worth roughly the same thing, and with little to no depreciation in value(yes all breeding comes with a cost, and at least using the snakes to cover there own costs, makes it more fun then always forking out your own money)

Now you get a nice Male (Again most people who tend to breed will read about buying a quality power male.. not just a pastel male.. again to some there own)

TWO years from now when you plan to breed your A) female you bought grown up. The male has lost MUCH value.. or B) your now stuck with buying a PB or HEAVY female, which now double/triples there price from when they are a hatchling...

Now I never sat there and say alan your an idiot dont do that.. BUT when starting to breed, and getting the feel of things 9 times out of 10 its worth your time to invest in 2-3+ Females at a smaller weight and ONCE they are close to breeder size invest in a nice PB male or EVEN a hatchling male Since they only take a few months to mature (again sometimes)

So Yes your idea of telling him to invest in a MALE before it all.. well lets put it this way.. is "Stupid" , again in the wrong direction for him wanting to breed LATER on.

...and thats the way it always works out... Yup I'm sure every one on the forum followed that logic starting out. Does it make some rational sense? Yes. Is that the only way to do it? Not even close. Not to mention a Lemon Blast is pretty much as low as it will go if picked up from an auction. It's only the "investment" morphs that see the substantial drops. We're not talking to a business major here wanting to invest his life into Ball Pythons. He's probably just an average person wanting a BP and thinks he MIGHT breed down the road. I offered one way to do it which is not stupid. I've managed contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars as well as several projects of equal size and there is always more than one way to skin a cat. I didn't get to where I got career wise by following simple inside the box methods.

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I think it's important the wobble was mentioned when someone who is new to morphs showed interest in the spider gene; the thread starter had obviously never heard about the defect and not all sellers are upfront about such things.

I bought a spider as my first BP morph and while he typically displayed no outward signs he still had a minor twitch and awkward strike when food was presented. Despite having the wobble to a lesser degree I still felt rather betrayed when I found out, all on my lonesome, after the purchase. Now the common thing to say is, "do your research".. This is well and good but I guess I'm one of those weirdos who think certain things should be disclosed by sellers before a sale. Defects, slight or not, fall into this category in my book.

While most people who have been into ball pythons for any degree of time know about the wobble what about the newbies like me? I can think of two reasons people may feel are legitimate excuses not to disclose wobble information. Either they think it's such a minor issue it doesn't deserve mention or they are assuming everyone is already in the know. What could possibly be lost by disclosing the information then - especially to someone who seems to be new to royal morphs? I know when I produced from that male spider I was sure to explain the wobble during 1st correspondence with prospective buyers even though mine merely showed the same slight symptoms as their sire.

It may not be a big deal to many folks, to those it is, an upfront warning is appreciated. I'm reminded of when I was looking at some zebra cheynei on Nick Mutton's website some years ago. I got on the horn with him and one of the first things he tells me is that while single gene animals show no defects, neurological or otherwise, the super zebras had a tendency to hatch out with kinks. Having not read about this possible defect in super zebras I was suddenly reminded of spider, woma, champagne, desert, super sable, super spotnose, super black pastel/cinnamon, caramel albino, bug eyed leucies and other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting. So many people had to find out the hard way that many of these genes were not 100% in more cases of similarity that could be deemed coincidence. Now we have so many people invested in many of these animals playing it off or completely ignoring the issue it makes me sad to the bone. In some of them the issues can be slight, in others the single gene has zero issues and it bothers very few people but both still deserve mention to prospective buyers. While I did not buy a zebra that day, I did buy one of his normal female cheynei and Mr. Mutton gained a customer for life because he is a man I now trust.
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