Everyone is a breeder.

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

My insight on excessive breeding is not skewed. The 1/4 statement was in sarcasm, not scientific facts. Out of all the snake breeders that I have liked on my snake lovers Facebook page (400+), all the breeders at reptile shows, all the breeders promoting online (Facebook, Craigslist, forums, and all the people promoting on Youtube), all the new owners talking about how they are going to breed, and 90% of it is for Ball Pythons; it has nothing to do with how many people on this site do it. We can include all the breeders on here too, if you would like. That's why I'm asking on here, BECAUSE it's the biggest forum for BP owners that I know of, therefor, it's a better chance to get some good answers, from a few different points of view.

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That's exactly my point. You're looking in all of the places where people who are interested in breeding gather in large numbers and concluding that most people who own a BP have intentions of breeding. I agree that BPs are one of the most popular snakes to breed right now, but I still feel your insights are skewed because you have "caught the BP bug" and are surrounding yourself with people of similar interests. After all, it's why the rest of us are here. :)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

That's exactly my point. You're looking in all of the places where people who are interested in breeding gather in large numbers and concluding that most people who own a BP have intentions of breeding. I agree that BPs are one of the most popular snakes to breed right now, but I still feel your insights are skewed because you have "caught the BP bug" and are surrounding yourself with people of similar interests. After all, it's why the rest of us are here. :)

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Go back 10 years ago. BP's did NOT have this following with breeders back then :) But then again, neither did reptiles as a whole.

I actually don't have the BP bug, though. I got one to rehome it, knowing that I don't really care for BP's. I did it for the snake, not me. I prefer Colubrids and Boas, which is why I don't see so many owners being breeders at the same time from those. I came here to hopefully figure out why everyone loves them so much, but to no avail. I do agree, to surrounding myself with people of similar interests. I enjoy talking to everyone on here, even if it's about a snake I don't really love all that much.

And thank you to everyone for the mature discussion on this thread. Most other snake sites would have prompted 'SCREW YOU, YOU BALL HATER! GO DIE'. I appreciate everyone's insights and views :)

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

Go back 10 years ago. BP's did NOT have this following with breeders back then :) But then again, neither did reptiles as a whole.

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Digging deep in the BP history books (which isn't deep at all), the first morph was produced by Bob Clark in the early 90s. It wasn't until the early 2000s that the first Bumble Bee was displayed by Kevin at NERD and that's when things really started to take off. They're so popular now because the morphs that the average person could only dream about owning 15 years ago are affordable to the masses right now.

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

I prefer Colubrids and Boas, which is why I don't see so many owners being breeders at the same time from those.

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I can think of a few reasons why breeding BP's is more popular than boas or colubrids:
- As was pointed out, boas are bigger snakes as adults and finding GOOD homes for them is difficult. A rack of eight 41 qt tubs for adult BP's doesn't take up much space, where my adult BCI's are all in 4'x30"x15" enclosures.
- Boas have bigger litters, up to four times as many babies as one BP.
- There are a lot more BP morphs to "dink" with for a breeder.
- The smaller/dwarf boa species tend to be very snappy/defensive as youngsters, which puts many people off of raising them. Even at a year old my Tarahumara still hisses at me when I open her enclosure, when she gets fed, when I pick her up...
- You don't have to cool BP's for breeding like with many colubrid species, just put the boy in with the girl and magic happens!
- Cannibalism. I have several king snakes and would feel awful if I tried breeding them and one was eaten by the other instead.

All that said, I produced my first clutch this year. Even before they hatched I had several people ask if I would be selling any as pets. Not everyone wants to breed. I think the people who do breed are just more likely to be participating here, sharing their knowledge with new owners, and keeping up with tips, tricks, and industry news from other breeders.

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

I just wanted to pose a question for conversation, (maybe should have been put in the 'breeding' section), but why do SO many people breed BP's? I understand the love of snakes, I understand the creativity in breeding different colors, but I still can't comprehend why 1/4 BP owners seems to be a breeder. Can you imagine if 1 in every 4 cat owners were a breeder? Is it the money they're after? The respect? I guess I don't get it. I mean no confrontation by this question, so please no-one get offended or butthurt. I just want educated on why so many BP owners want to be breeders. Very few Colubrid or Boa owners seem to want to become breeders. Reptile shows are now nothing but Ball Python shows because of this. Isn't this kind of self-destructive, to flood the market?

I'm sure I'll get crucified for this question by some, so bring it on I guess. Just keep it a mature discussion, because I really am curious.

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

all the breeders promoting online (Facebook, Craigslist, forums, and all the people promoting on Youtube), all the new owners talking about how they are going to breed, and 90% of it is for Ball Pythons;

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Something is always going to be most popular - no avoiding that one. Ball pythons have just been on the pedestal longer than most so it causes some animosity. Maybe their staying power as a popular species has prompted more folks to breed them in hopes of making some money. I personally am breeding with a specific end goal in mind. I have a 12 tub rack reserved for my ball pythons and will probably drop it down to 4 tubs once I reach my goal.

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Originally Posted by bearded_guy

And thank you to everyone for the mature discussion on this thread. Most other snake sites would have prompted 'SCREW YOU, YOU BALL HATER! GO DIE'. I appreciate everyone's insights and views :)

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What site would have prompted that response I wonder? I've seen ball python enthusiasts blindly thrashed and bashed in such a manner but not so much the other way around. Even if you are a ball python hater, that's your privilege. I keep what interests me personally, find most species intriguing, but do admit that even I am baffled by what some people find enjoyable. I can't knock it though cause I know there are many who feel the same way about some of the creatures I keep.

I miss the variety of the reptile expos but I can hardly blame ball python breeders. I don't think those who put on the expos are being biased or anything either. They have slots available to anybody who is interested in vending their show. It just so happens that a lot of people who breed other stuff stopped buying tables because they felt everybody was there for the ball pythons. People brought into the hobby because of ball pythons might not even be there otherwise so I don't really see where the business was lost for, let's say a Lampropeltis breeder. If anything it's putting more eyes on their snakes. If only 1 out of 100 ball python enthusiasts show interest, that's 1 more that otherwise wouldn't even have been there. Then, you have attendees who stop coming because they were interested in things not regius and these were becoming scarcer and scarcer. Seems more like a self fulfilling prophecy and if I were forced to place the "blame" of the evolution of reptile expositions somewhere I probably wouldn't start with ball python breeders.

**sarcasm on** It was corn snake breeders who started it all - let's go get em! **sarcasm off**

A massive positive note to the increase in our hobby are the sheer numbers that ball pythons have brought to the table. With so many people keeping snakes, whether you like their choice of species or not, it bolsters our ability to fight unjustified legislature against reptiles in general. I shiver to think what laws would now be in place if ball pythons had not become as popular as they are today.

I would say for me it is all about the passion for the animals. I have kept all kinds of reptiles since I was 8 and breeding them was the next logical step in my passion. Why then ball pythons? I should say I'm not completely partial, I also raise king snakes and looking to add a couple more species as well. But the ball python is an incredible animal with so many different colors and patterns. Specifically for me it was the piebald ball python. I remember the first time I ever saw one and I knew I wanted to produce one. Also, I like to teach others about reptiles, ball pythons are a perfect animal to do that with due to their calm disposition and manageable size not to mention the genetics lesson one can include.


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Originally Posted by John1982

Something is always going to be most popular - no avoiding that one. Ball pythons have just been on the pedestal longer than most so it causes some animosity. Maybe their staying power as a popular species has prompted more folks to breed them in hopes of making some money. I personally am breeding with a specific end goal in mind. I have a 12 tub rack reserved for my ball pythons and will probably drop it down to 4 tubs once I reach my goal.



What site would have prompted that response I wonder? I've seen ball python enthusiasts blindly thrashed and bashed in such a manner but not so much the other way around. Even if you are a ball python hater, that's your privilege. I keep what interests me personally, find most species intriguing, but do admit that even I am baffled by what some people find enjoyable. I can't knock it though cause I know there are many who feel the same way about some of the creatures I keep.

I miss the variety of the reptile expos but I can hardly blame ball python breeders. I don't think those who put on the expos are being biased or anything either. They have slots available to anybody who is interested in vending their show. It just so happens that a lot of people who breed other stuff stopped buying tables because they felt everybody was there for the ball pythons. People brought into the hobby because of ball pythons might not even be there otherwise so I don't really see where the business was lost for, let's say a Lampropeltis breeder. If anything it's putting more eyes on their snakes. If only 1 out of 100 ball python enthusiasts show interest, that's 1 more that otherwise wouldn't even have been there. Then, you have attendees who stop coming because they were interested in things not regius and these were becoming scarcer and scarcer. Seems more like a self fulfilling prophecy and if I were forced to place the "blame" of the evolution of reptile expositions somewhere I probably wouldn't start with ball python breeders.

**sarcasm on** It was corn snake breeders who started it all - let's go get em! **sarcasm off**

A massive positive note to the increase in our hobby are the sheer numbers that ball pythons have brought to the table. With so many people keeping snakes, whether you like their choice of species or not, it bolsters our ability to fight unjustified legislature against reptiles in general. I shiver to think what laws would now be in place if ball pythons had not become as popular as they are today.

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By far, the best answer so far :) Thank you, sir!

And for the other website, I was referring to my time on the sSNAKESs forum.

While I've always loved snakes, it wasn't until I got to college that I had the pleasure of attending a reptile show. There, I fell in love with an albino burmese but balked at the size they could get. I brought home a corn snake instead and began breeding a couple years later. Nothing beats seeing a pipping baby... Though I bred corns for many years, now it's getting harder and harder to find buyers for the babies when you're looking at 20-40 babies per female. Unless I know where they are going, I'm not a fan of selling them wholesale, so I've stopped breeding corns. 3 years ago, I found that I could afford an albino ball python (the closest to an albino burmese I'll ever own) and also discovered BEL's. Because I enjoy seeing babies pip and breeding my own stock, I decided to start breeding bps. The smaller clutch sizes and the active market were part of the deciding factors. I don't expect to make money but at least I know that it will be easier to sell the babies to good homes, unlike with corns right now, which is extremely important to me.

I've seen the collection sales and shook my head at the posts where people think they can make a quick buck in this industry, but I don't think that is the majority of breeders, especially not here in this community. Honestly, I feel the word addiction describes exactly why the majority get into it. Despite having 13 bp's, there are still morphs I would love to have and breeding will help me get there.

I love the.."I LOVE SNAKES" replies...it all comes down to $$$$$$ cha-ching, cha-ching$$$$$$

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Originally Posted by BiggBaddWolf

I love the.."I LOVE SNAKES" replies...it all comes down to $$$$$$ cha-ching, cha-ching$$$$$$

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Where's the downvote button when you need it... :rolleyes: