Bee project input

if you breed double-gene to double-gene, and if none of the parents is a super-form or something that acts like a super, you get:

1/16 = 6,25% normals,
1/4 = 25% single-gene morphs,
3/8 = 37.5% double-gene,
1/4 = 25% triple gene,
1/16 = 6,25% the quadruple gene jackpot.

if one has mojave and one has lesser, you get 1/16 single-gene mojave and 1/16 single-gene lesser. if both have lesser, you get 1/8 single-gene lesser. so it gets less complicated, and the list of possible results gets shorter. but overall, your odds are the same.

these odds only change if one of them is a super, or if one of them is a combo like a highway, mystic potion, or lesser + mojave BEL. when its double-gene (super-form or allelic combo) to double-gene, you get:

1/4 single-gene
1/2 double-gene
1/4 triple-gene.

no more normals, also no chance to get a 4-gene combo. and when both parents share a gene, that doesnt matter, the odds only change when one parent contains a super form or one of the allelic combos.

so, for example, pastel enchi to pastel enchi gives you 1/16 normals, 1/16 super pastel super enchi, and so on, just like in the first example. but super pastel to super enchi gives you 100% pastel enchis.

there really isnt much of a difference, in your case, between lesser pastel and pastave. with a pastave, the clutches will be more diverse, but at the same quality level. and if you happen to come across another awesome two-gene combo you didnt consider so far, as long as its a combo that can reproduce itself when bred to a normal, dont worry about the odds, they will be the same.

I had considered the percentages at a quality level, ut at a diversity level, and I definitely need to adjust my thinking a bit haha. Thanks so much for the lesson, I'm still pretty new to the genetics aspect of all this, and I'm so happy to be learning so much!

I’ve decided that I’m going to try and hold out on buying a female until I can find a lesser super pastel.It seems to be the best fit for what I’m hoping to get. I’ll probably keep my eye out for a good male or two to try and mix in some other genes. I went looking around kingsnake.com and some other classifieds sites, but I didn’t see anyone selling lesser super pastels and have no idea what kind of price range I would be looking at. I could just save BELs for later and get a super pastel female, which I see frequently enough, but I would really like to have that lesser gene in play.
Also, I was looking at what I would breed the Queen Bees with to get the Killer Queens, and I’d want to use a super pastel for that as well. I know that some people will breed snakes back to their parents or other relatives, but how does that kind of inbreeding affect the snakes’ genetic health? Should I get a separate female to breeder the offspring to?

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Originally Posted by whatsherface

Also, I was looking at what I would breed the Queen Bees with to get the Killer Queens, and I’d want to use a super pastel for that as well. I know that some people will breed snakes back to their parents or other relatives, but how does that kind of inbreeding affect the snakes’ genetic health? Should I get a separate female to breeder the offspring to?

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I'd get an unrelated super pastel.

Continued inbreeding is not a real good idea. The reptile horror story of that type is the blood red corn snake. It was beautiful, but the line became so inbred that breeding success was poor. As far as I know, the line is extinct. Any "blood red" corn snakes available now are derived from outbreedings from that line.

Anyway, you should have enough babies to sell or swap a few for a new super pastel.

I thought so, but I had seen opinions on either side of the fence, so I thought I should ask. I figure the health of the offspring is worth the cost of another snake. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whatsherface

I thought so, but I had seen opinions on either side of the fence, so I thought I should ask. I figure the health of the offspring is worth the cost of another snake. :)

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once you actually hatch out little baby snakes, and when you are in contact with other breeders, it will be easy to trade them. or you sell some hatchlings and take some of that money to buy something different. so it should be easy enough to keep the collection genetically diverse and to avoid inbreeding.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

once you actually hatch out little baby snakes, and when you are in contact with other breeders, it will be easy to trade them. or you sell some hatchlings and take some of that money to buy something different. so it should be easy enough to keep the collection genetically diverse and to avoid inbreeding.

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True! There's a show coming up in the area, so hopefully I'll find something there. I found two super pastel lessers online, but they're both a good bit out of my price range (I am not sadly not ready to drop $700 on a snake yet), so I may have to settle for super pastel for now. Maybe by the time I get some hatchlings from the first female, I'll be able to afford a super pastel lesser. :)

So, I've acquired some snakes for my project, and I just thought I would share!

I have Lemon Meringue, a lesser bee boy, and an unnamed Super Pastel girl. He was hatched July '13, and she was hatched Oct '13. It'll be awhile (a long while) before she's up to breeding size, but I figure worse case scenario she can be the lady I use to get my Killer Queens (if I get a male) and I can buy a larger, more mature Super Pastel female for breeding the Queen Bees sooner. I'm also thinking I could breed her to one of my Cinnamon boys and make some Pewters, and then breed those to the other Super Pastel for some Sterling Pewters or to another Cinnamon for some Silver Bullets and a shot at Super Cinnamon. :) So many plans! Grow, my children, grow!

(Sorry about all the charts, but I really love the OWAL genetics wizard.)

Lesserbee x super pastel

Male:	Lesserbee
Female:	Super Pastel
Percent	Fraction	Traits
25%	1/4	Queenbee
25%	1/4	Pastel, Lesser Platinum
25%	1/4	Bumblebee
25%	1/4	Pastel
View Results Page

Queen Bee x super pastel

Male:	Queenbee
Female:	Super Pastel
Percent	Fraction	Traits
12.5%	1/8	Lesser Platinum, Killerbee
12.5%	1/8	Lesser Platinum, Super Pastel
12.5%	1/8	Queenbee
12.5%	1/8	Pastel, Lesser Platinum
12.5%	1/8	Killerbee
12.5%	1/8	Super Pastel
12.5%	1/8	Bumblebee
12.5%	1/8	Pastel
View Results Page

Cinnamon x super pastel

Male:	Cinnamon
Female:	Super Pastel
Percent	Fraction	Traits
50%	1/2	Pewter
50%	1/2	Pastel
View Results Page

pewter x super pastel

Male:	Pewter
Female:	Super Pastel
Percent	Fraction	Traits
25%	1/4	Sterling Pastel
25%	1/4	Super Pastel
25%	1/4	Pewter
25%	1/4	Pastel
View Results Page

Pewter x cinnamon

Male:	Cinnamon
Female:	Pewter
Percent	Fraction	Traits
12.5%	1/8	Silver Bullet
25%	1/4	Pewter
12.5%	1/8	Pastel
12.5%	1/8	Super Cinnamon
25%	1/4	Cinnamon
12.5%	1/8	Normal
View Results Page

What do Killer Queen Bees run for these days?

Well, I've seen QUEENBEE males for as low as $250-300 now. A female QUEENBEE hatchling just sold for $500 in an auction. I bought my Queenbee male at breeding size for $400, and that was a real steal 6 months ago. It's crazy how much the prices have gone down in such a short amount of time.. I'd say a killer queenbee is just at $600-$800 m/f at the most..

EDIT: Just found a Killer Queenbee male on kingsnake.com for $799