Which Pairing Combo

better go for a super vanilla boy and a bunch of fire enchi, firefly, fire lesser, fire yb girls.

I can understand the concern with misclassifying a snake and honestly its very realistic for a new person to this breeding game such as myself. But doesn't the differentiation get cancelled the moment I'd breed a vanilla and fire? Guess it could be argued that I'll have built up the experience by then but theres always the inherent risk. Besides I have the help of the professionals... you guys and gals!! ;-)

Darkranger I like your enthusiasm but I don't think the boss is going to allow THAT many snakes. I'm not trying to corner a market just produce some morphs we like and maybe sell some other bp's to cover some costs and bring the enjoyment of this hobby into someone else's life.



One big decide on the number of snakes we keep is the number of rats to sustain said snakes. At 2 females a snake (I believe I read on the rat breeding forum) thats a lot of rats that adds up quick.

Keep it coming. Much appreciated!

Update: After more research and looking at all morphs currently available I think I'll go with the following three and then "make" the remainder of my collection.

1. Vanilla Cream Male
2. Enchi Butter Female
3. Sugar X Female

Haven't decided what 'X' will be yet, maybe fire to enable making more vanilla creams. I do know I want a higher white female sugar - which seems hard to come by. The one on worldofballpythons is a solid example. Ive found some other interesting combos with sugar that are available but I need to consider the best option.

As for the Enchi Butter a breede O contacted has a chance for some this summer. So probably around fall time for her.

Vanilla Cream has me a bit confused. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but of there was an "AKC" standard for snakes, what would it be for Vanilla Creams? Do you want a lot of darks and lights with tons of fading, little pattern and high cream with minimal fading? And how would each affect the offspring? Any input?


Thanks!

I suggest expanding the collection with female morphs. Breeding plans change all the time. Are you really going to wait 2 to 3 years for your one female just for one combo? Plus there's a slight chance of that female not even making it full term.

stickyalvinroll is right.

if you buy hatchlings (which is the most economical way, and avoids many risks that come with buying adults), you can buy males 1 year later than females.

but then, looking at your signature, apart from the pair of albinos, what remains is 3 females, one male spinner, and a male cinnamon. a spinner is really good for breeding, a single-gene cinnamon not so much, maybe just a few times to hit a few combos once. so with that in mind, going for all 3, one male two females, really makes sense.

one thing to consider: its a double gene male and two double gene females. also i think the females will each, or at least one of them, be more expensive as it is (just a hunch). why not go for a triple gene male, and two single gene females? it would be much cheaper, but the hatchlings would still have 2 genes on average.

or, from a slightly different angle: if you are going for a female enchi butter/lesser and a female sugar/calico + extra gene, thats some powerful females right there that will cost a bit if you look for top quality, which im sure you do. compared to that, the male doesnt look right, it seems genetically rather weak. it makes sense to make sure that the male is financially more valuable and genetically more powerful than either of the females.

so what i would do is to cut down on the females a bit and upgrade the male. or just invest more in the male. or take the budget you have for these 3 snakes, and make sure that the male gets 40% or more of it, and 30% or less of it goes to each female. its just a mathematical / statistical / pragmatic fact that you get more bang for your buck that way.

(side note: you say really good high-white sugars are hard to find.... in case you are not doing it already, just look for both, sugar and calico, i think they are the same because you can find examples of all possible optics in both lines. its just that in the specific line called sugar, the really high-white ones seem to be rather rare and expensive. so put the name aside, look for both, until you find the one that has the desired optics. same goes for lesser/butter.)

Stickyalvinroll I understand everything you've said and I can 100% understand the logic. Only thing I'm confused on is the "might not go full term" comment. Is there something special about these morphs that has breeding issues or are combos more likely to fail in breeding? Just want to ensure I'm understanding. I'm in no huge rush to breed I just love the snakes and the chance to breed is very exciting. But its not my end goal just a part of the overall experience.



Python good post again. I do indeed buy hatchlings or sub adults, ie they haven't been tampered with yet... I like virgins ;-) (sorry maybe slightly inappropriate). I also thank you for double checking I dont fail to realize sugar and calico are the same - though personally I like Sugar more.

You'd be disappointed in me. I had a phenomenal opportunity to get a triple gene female today and I took it. The optimized side might cringe but if I can get a triple at the price of a cheap double thats hard to pass up. Especially when her genes have what I want.

The reason for the male Vanilla Cream is that I know that combo will be in my collection someday and if I start with him I've got good accent genes to put in any of my snakes. And I'll be honest... the breeder selling him I've done business with and I really like him - the breeder. I'd like to give him my business and continue to develop that relationship. Might be silly but that too motivates me to make the purchase this year as opposed to next.

You mentioned one snake being more expensive I'll guess you meant the Enchi Butter. Due to today's acquisition that female would more than likely be an Enchi Sugar. Will that raise the price.. I haven't a clue. But that will probably be a prospect for this fall. I doubt anyone has any available now and I need to confirm my rack space, heh.

You're also correct that a cinnamon isn't that impressive but he can give me pewters and maybe someday a super cinny or that complex. I know many folks like to pass around their males but my plan is to only do a couple clutches a year so more than likely a male will only see one female. So the super complex investment male and single gene females would hamper my inefficient method - if that even makes sense. Plus these animals I buy are permanent members so I'd like for them to be eye candy also.

I do really appreciate all of the conversation. Believe it or not it has been helpful. I will post some pics when I get some of my new clan. Maybe the triple this week for breeder photos and the vanilla cream sometime soon too.

Much obliged or as they say here arigatou gozaimasu.

No not at all. The morphs don't have that problem. You know how people in real life have miscarriages, or they cannot have babies at all? That could happen in bps too, but only a slight chance tho. Good to have multiple females just in case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zee-man

I had a phenomenal opportunity to get a triple gene female today and I took it. The optimized side might cringe but if I can get a triple at the price of a cheap double thats hard to pass up. Especially when her genes have what I want.

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So what did you get? :)

As soon as I hear back from the breeder, I will post some pics of the new acquisition.

Similar for the Vanilla Cream once that deal has been sealed. Don't want to cheat you guys of some nice looking snakes after all this discussion :-D.