Substrate question

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Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss

Be careful of paper because some inks are toxic to small animals.
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Actually not so much anymore. It used to be a problem when inks were made with petroleum based products but virtually all inks used in the past 20 years have been made with soy based products.

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Originally Posted by Madscrills

Great to know, at the very least it's an option. I would more than likely keep the rats in my garage and the snakes in the house. So perhaps I'd rethink using it as substrate for the snakes if I want some sort of odor control. Also I'd rather not stain my snakes. Though the stain should come off in a shed correct?

What would be your recommendation for the most cost effective substrate that does well at odor control. I get the feeling there won't be a miracle substrate I can find on the cheap. It seems that it's either one special one for odor, another super cheap crappy one, or another special type that does well with humidity. But any information would be handy. Thanks a lot Nikki.

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Staining does come off with sheds.
There's a number of things you can use for snakes. Aspen, Cypress mulch, coco coir, reptibark, etc etc. Aspen can mold when wet, so keep that in mind. But its probably the cheapest if you order online. Spot cleaning is easier with a wood bedding than paper, imo. Many people just spot clean their wood bedding and do a full dump once a month or every few weeks. Paper has to be cleaned and dumped every time the snake makes a mess.
If you have humidity issues, the cypress and coco are great at retaining moisture.

Some people do use kiln dried pine with both snakes and rats. Kiln dried pine is the best at controlling odors in my opinion than other substrates. But I only use pine on rats. My snakes get paper and shredded aspen.



I personally dislike the bedding from Tractor Supply. If you have a local supplier for America's Choice Eco Flakes, I highly recommend that. Its way more absorbent and lasts longer in odor control than the Tractor Supply one in my experience. I've used the TS one when I needed bedding in a pinch, and wow. I used it for 2 weeks, couldnt stand it, and gave the rest away. My rat tubs got way more soiled and smelly is less time compared than the Eco Flakes. It just didn't absorb well. And I don't think the rats were very comfortable on it either. Its really hard and pokey.


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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Awesome - please link to product, or at least name it.

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http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...covers-8-cu-ft

There is one example. Nowhere does it say kiln dried and if you touch it you can tell its not kiln dried. It is also mostly dust. I had a bag donated to me once as a thank you for rescuing some mice.

How are you guys getting a smell with paper towels?

I'm pretty sure TS bedding is kiln dried. Or at least now it is. I used it years ago once and I swore it gave my rats RI. But decided to try out again a few months ago when I needed it in a pinch because so many people use/recommend it.
Tons of people have been using it on their rodents and reptiles with no ill effect. So it can't be that toxic..... Most, if not all, commercial wood beddings are kiln dries these days.

I just personally hate it due to odor and absorption issues

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Has someone here found a commercial pine bedding that is not dried?

Just asking................

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The stuff at tractor supply, I'm not sure if it -wasn't- kiln dried before, but it used to be awful. It would stink your whole house up like pine. And one day they switched the packaging and it barely smells like pine at all. Like I said, I'm guessing it was still kiln dried to some extent, but it used to stank.

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Originally Posted by fishdip

How are you guys getting a smell with paper towels?

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When they pee or poop, it smells terrible in my opinion. Paper doesn't smell in general since reptiles don't really smell. But they do have high concentrated urine. When using a wood shavings, the odor of urine and feces is totally absent imo.

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Originally Posted by Awaiting Abyss

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...covers-8-cu-ft

There is one example. Nowhere does it say kiln dried and if you touch it you can tell its not kiln dried. It is also mostly dust. I had a bag donated to me once as a thank you for rescuing some mice.

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Hmmmm. It says dried right in the description and before we go there, they only dry shavings one way. Wood must be kiln dried before processing so that the moisture content is below 19%. This eliminates bacteria and molds that can cause shavings to beak down and also makes them more hygienic. That it why I have never seen an animal bedding product that is not kiln dried. It's not about the reduction of aromatics, but about making a more stable hygienic product.

How can you tell whether it's kiln dried by touching it? Hint, just because the wood is moist does not mean it wasn't first kiln dried. Just means it's moist, as the packaging is not moisture proof and these bags are often kept outside. Is there another method for figuring this out by touching it? Smelling it? Tasting it?

It must be since I clean the cage right after the pee or poo the cage never stinks?

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Originally Posted by fishdip

It must be since I clean the cage right after the pee or poo the cage never stinks?

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Lol. How large are your snakes? I clean right away too, but their waste still smells imo.

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