My bee keep on regurgitating the rat.

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Originally Posted by ScraPPyCoCo

Im so worried because his dropping weight so fast. His body is like hollow.

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Two regurgitations spanning a course of less than 3 weeks should not have made a snake emaciated (I figure that is what you mean when you say hollow). When you say hollow do you mean its like his skin is to big on him? One "Juvie" rat every two weeks? Need to up the frequency on that a bit go with once a week.

As far as temps I would kill for your ambient temps, you still might need a small heater to keep the room warm enough at night (If you are using room heat aim to keep it in the mid 80s (I like 86))

Everyone... slow down.

The OP lives in the Philippines where the average temperatures and humidity are extremely similar to those found in BPs native habitat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Philippines. Keepers in the Philippines mostly do not use nor do they need to use supplemental heat. The snakes are not one size fits all - please take some real consideration before spouting off the caresheet to someone who has kept their snake successfully for 2 years in the same conditions.

Plenty of breeders use paper substrate and no hides and no hot spot - in fact the biggest breeders out there do this. I've been to NERD many times - they use paper, no hot spot, just a water bowl. Take a deep breath and analyze the details here before jumping down his throat and telling him to rehome the snake...


OP - one thing I noticed is you mentioned feeding an adult rat. Is that the first time you fed one that big? Prior to that, was it always the small pup rat? My thoughts are that the big rat caused the regurgitation and when you fed 'a few days' later the small rat caused it again. This is because the regurgitation is very hard on their system so typically you would wait 2 weeks or so before trying to feed again. If the snake is actively losing weight you may want to bring to the vet to check if it's sick, but otherwise the trip might just stress it out more. If you have a picture it will help us understand how urgent it is. If there are no other signs of sickness I personally would just wait 2 weeks before offering a smaller than usual prey item again. These are just my 2 cents.

Ive read the comments, i understand your opinion guys but please before you suggest to give away my snakes, please think first before you judge me of how im taking care of them. Ive been taking care of ball pythons for 7years. This is the first time i experienced it. For the past seven years i dont use heaters, temp controllers etc. i only use hides when they are still small.

About the feeding, we just lately have a shortage of rats in here. Thats why i only give them that amount.


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Originally Posted by MrLang

Everyone... slow down.

The OP lives in the Philippines where the average temperatures and humidity are extremely similar to those found in BPs native habitat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Philippines. Keepers in the Philippines mostly do not use nor do they need to use supplemental heat. The snakes are not one size fits all - please take some real consideration before spouting off the caresheet to someone who has kept their snake successfully for 2 years in the same conditions.

Plenty of breeders use paper substrate and no hides and no hot spot - in fact the biggest breeders out there do this. I've been to NERD many times - they use paper, no hot spot, just a water bowl. Take a deep breath and analyze the details here before jumping down his throat and telling him to rehome the snake...


OP - one thing I noticed is you mentioned feeding an adult rat. Is that the first time you fed one that big? Prior to that, was it always the small pup rat? My thoughts are that the big rat caused the regurgitation and when you fed 'a few days' later the small rat caused it again. This is because the regurgitation is very hard on their system so typically you would wait 2 weeks or so before trying to feed again. If the snake is actively losing weight you may want to bring to the vet to check if it's sick, but otherwise the trip might just stress it out more. If you have a picture it will help us understand how urgent it is. If there are no other signs of sickness I personally would just wait 2 weeks before offering a smaller than usual prey item again. These are just my 2 cents.

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Adult rats is what im giving him always, but lately due to shortage i offered him juvies. Then shifted back to adult(the one that he regurgitate)

I will post pics tomorrow and please advice me if i need to bring him to the vet asap. I think he's emaciated at the moment.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Everyone... slow down.

The OP lives in the Philippines where the average temperatures and humidity are extremely similar to those found in BPs native habitat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Philippines. Keepers in the Philippines mostly do not use nor do they need to use supplemental heat. The snakes are not one size fits all - please take some real consideration before spouting off the caresheet to someone who has kept their snake successfully for 2 years in the same conditions.

Plenty of breeders use paper substrate and no hides and no hot spot - in fact the biggest breeders out there do this. I've been to NERD many times - they use paper, no hot spot, just a water bowl. Take a deep breath and analyze the details here before jumping down his throat and telling him to rehome the snake...


OP - one thing I noticed is you mentioned feeding an adult rat. Is that the first time you fed one that big? Prior to that, was it always the small pup rat? My thoughts are that the big rat caused the regurgitation and when you fed 'a few days' later the small rat caused it again. This is because the regurgitation is very hard on their system so typically you would wait 2 weeks or so before trying to feed again. If the snake is actively losing weight you may want to bring to the vet to check if it's sick, but otherwise the trip might just stress it out more. If you have a picture it will help us understand how urgent it is. If there are no other signs of sickness I personally would just wait 2 weeks before offering a smaller than usual prey item again. These are just my 2 cents.

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I also keep snakes without a hotspot, however my concern was based on the fact that, when asked about the temps, the OP couldn't tell us anything about them. We are in FL, but keep our entire collection in a climate controlled building, and don't provide hotspots. But if you ask me what my temps are, I'm measuring and can tell you. I would think that measuring the temps so you know what your dealing with is mandatory no matter what method of heat you use. Especially if you are having a health issue.

Do you feed live rats, pre-killed, or frozen/thawed?

If you use frozen/thawed rodents, it seems quite possible that the first regurge could have been caused by an improperly thawed rat (either too cold in the middle still, or too cooked during the warming process). Subsequent regurges can be caused by the first, as mentioned earlier. They need time to rest, heal, and replenish after being sick.

If you feed live, (or pre-killed immediately before feeding) then I don't have much of a guess as to what caused the first one. Maybe the rodent was simply too big, although it'd have to be pretty darned big (relative to the snake) to be rejected by the body so long after having been eaten.

If I were in your shoes, I'd give the snake a full month off from eating. At that age and size, it should be able to skip a few meals without any adverse affects. They don't become emaciated in a moment. It's more likely that it simply appears that way because it's not feeling well. I'd keep an eye on him, make sure he always has fresh water available, and the environment stays clean. After a month of rest, offer a small meal and see if it stays down.

During that time of rest, if the snake really does seem to be losing weight, I'd consult with a vet.

Give you animal three or four weeks before you try to feed again after a regurge.
Also offer something a lot smaller than you would normally feed a couple of time and gradually move back up.

You dont have to get rid of your snake. Some people just have to learn to ask more questions before they express their opinions.

FYI people, some of us heat the whole room. I do use hot spots but i can turn them off if i wanted to up the temp in the room. Expand your knowledge first and then learn to give choice advice.

Again, no matter what method of heat you use, you still need to be measuring your temperatures. And, IMO, you probably also want to have a way to influence the temperatures if for some reason they deviate from the normal acceptable range. Before we switched our collection over to ambient heat only I did a fair amount of research and discussed the idea with a couple of very knowledgeable exotic/herp vets in my area. I will try to sum up the information I was given to the best of my ability. Here it goes.

If you are going to keep your snake without a hotspot and thermal gradient, what your temperatures actually are is more critical. For example, if you provide a hotspot and a thermal gradient, there is a pretty wide range of acceptable temperatures you could use. Your cool side could be anywhere from 78F to 84F and you'd probably be fine. Your hot side could be anywhere from 85F to the low 90s and you'd probably be fine. Because the snake can move a bit to get its core temperature where it needs to be.

But if you only control the ambient temperature, you have to be more precise, because you/the environment you create is having a much greater influence on the snake's core temperature. Make it too hot, and you are setting yourself up for issues ranging from reproductive issues (low sperm count, slugs) all the way up to regurgitation and neurological damage if it gets way too hot. Obviously, if it is way too cold, you may see major problems - RI, poor appetite, etc. Make it slightly too cool, and you are creating a situation where the snake's metabolism, endocrine system, and internal organ function may be impacted. You get decreased immune system function, digestion is affected, the balance of gut flora can get out of whack. So if your temperatures are just slightly too low, you may not see an immediate dramatic problem, but slowly, over time things can go wrong. So for example, it might be fine to keep the snake at 85F, but at 83F you may eventually have issues (including regurgitation, because of the impact on the internal organs, and/or gut flora).

So I really think you need at least a thermometer, so you know what your temps are. Hopefully, I explained that in a way that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Need a lot more information in order to really help.

Here's a list of questions that would help us to help you:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Questionaire

:)

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bit off topic but love the name, you dont mess with the zohan is a great movie;):):P

I heat my whole room as well with no hotspots and no health or feeding issues.

The first post without any clarification on his husbandry is what caused all the immediate flaming.


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