Where to place the thermostat probe

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

What happens when the snake tips the water bowl onto it? The bread clip could be knocked off too, thats certainly not fool proof. I just feel that its a lot safer to keep it outside of the enclosure where the snake cant mess with it at all. If its outside the enclosure then the only way it can be messed with is by me. That tubing would also be a spot where snake piss or crap could get in and have to be cleaned or replaced. I just personally feel like its a lot of extra effort you're going to with no real benefit.

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You should have a water bowl heavy enough that it doesn't get tipped ;) I personally like Rickey's idea. It's very creative, although I can't see myself being so outgoing, LOL!

I have my probes on the inside - I don't find anything "wrong" about putting it on the outside, I just didn't hear about doing it that way until after I had mine all set up! But then I do think that the temperature could be a little off, since that is not where the snakes are. I also don't know how heat transfers through glass, so maybe it wouldn't even matgter.

I personally use painter's tape for the probes in both my snake's vives. I initially thought the substrate would maybe get under the tape and cause it to come unstuck, but so far it hasn't and I've been using the tape for a couple of months. To be fair my ball python doesn't dig too far under the substrate because there is a hide directly overtop it where he just hangs out, but my corn has not knocked hers off at all.
I also don't place the water bowls near the probes, just in case something were to happen when I was gone (thermostat malfunction) and the snakes needed a cool place to go, the water bowl is on the other side.


EDIT: After reading about a poster's snake who "floods the vive with urine", I would agree that where you place the probe will depend on the snake! :P That's a bit concerning though... I've never had a snake defecate so much at once that it didn't get soaked into the substrate...

I just saw the thread that created this spinoff. I think its a bad practice to give a newbie advice that could harm their snakes.

If having the probe under works fine for the majority of keepers why suggest a different option to a newbie?

I don't understand your theory here and see more cons than pros. Just the amount of slack the probe had could be an issue. What if the snake coils in a way that moved substrate under the probe or coils and gets the probe lifted above the cage floor with its tail? The tstat is going to run away thinking the temp has dropped and send the hotspot temp through the roof.

So mounting the probe inside you could have these issues. 1. Probe gets unplugged, 2. Water spills, 3. Urinate on probe, 4. Probe gets lifted, 5. Snake moves tube and probe, 6. Snake twist or breaks wires in probe making the sensor fail. While placing the probe outside you have 1. Probe gets unplugged, 2. ???? I'm out.

I have come home to a broken a/c and my tstats did as they should and lowered the power which lowered the temp. I don't see how you are having different results.

To each his own but I would never share advice that went against the common practice. Its risky business. You have been a keeper long enough and know alot but a person with less time in the hobby may not mount it as week as you have or use this method for a larger more powerful snake and do real harm to it.

My results with a broken a/c were the same in my glass tanks, pvc cages, and rack. All had the power reduced because the house was to hot.I use Herpstat.

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Originally Posted by NH93

You should have a water bowl heavy enough that it doesn't get tipped ;) I personally like Rickey's idea. It's very creative, although I can't see myself being so outgoing, LOL!

I have my probes on the inside - I don't find anything "wrong" about putting it on the outside, I just didn't hear about doing it that way until after I had mine all set up! But then I do think that the temperature could be a little off, since that is not where the snakes are. I also don't know how heat transfers through glass, so maybe it wouldn't even matgter.

I personally use painter's tape for the probes in both my snake's vives. I initially thought the substrate would maybe get under the tape and cause it to come unstuck, but so far it hasn't and I've been using the tape for a couple of months. To be fair my ball python doesn't dig too far under the substrate because there is a hide directly overtop it where he just hangs out, but my corn has not knocked hers off at all.
I also don't place the water bowls near the probes, just in case something were to happen when I was gone (thermostat malfunction) and the snakes needed a cool place to go, the water bowl is on the other side.


EDIT: After reading about a poster's snake who "floods the vive with urine", I would agree that where you place the probe will depend on the snake! :P That's a bit concerning though... I've never had a snake defecate so much at once that it didn't get soaked into the substrate...

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I agree that the placement can depend on the snake but still say outside is best. I have probes mounted inside cages. They are for rhp and there is no other way. One issue with large snakes is their water bowl. My almost 6 ft blood is way to big to offer a tub to soak so to give her more space I use a smaller water bowl because there is no reason to offer a big one that she still can't soak in. She could easily flip anything you placed in there. The truth is probably most snakes could flip their water if they really wanted.

A issue you have is the tape. I realize that painters tape is more safe than most but what about this. A snake leads with its face and explores with its nose. What if your snakes did root around and lift the tape a bit and get it lifted. It has the potential to cover their face, eyes, mouth, or nose. This could be enough to kill them by suffocation. Just because you found a different method late doesn't mean you should not apply it.

Have you ever seem how hard it is for a dog to remove a piece of tape from their snout? They have legs with paws and its still difficult. What can a snake do? Freak out, spin around, and get more tangled.

I personally find mounting a Tstat probe in the enclosure itself to be unsafe. If somehow the probe was damaged or pulled away from the hot spot by the animal, it would be reading the temps incorrectly and cause a heat spike to compensate for not sensing any heat.
Several people in this forum have burned their snakes, melted tubs, and even caused fires from Tstat probes that have been inside enclosures and dislodged from their tethered spot by the animal.
Why even risk that!?! Just seems like an unnecessary step to achieve the same thing with the probe as one being outside the enclosure, except it comes with higher risks.


NH93 uses a wood based substrate, where the probe can be buried and somewhat protected from physical movement of the animal. What about those who use paper substrate? I feel like tape and the like would not protect the probe very well. (not to mention tape shouldn't be in the enclosure with an animal regardless of adhesive strength)

Lastly, Spyder Robotics even state in their instruction manual to mount the probe outside of the enclosure and on the heating element directly.
And if you were to choose to put the probe inside an enclosure, they recommend not using an enclosure that is inhabited by an animal.

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Originally Posted by KMG

So mounting the probe inside you could have these issues. 1. Probe gets unplugged, 2. Water spills, 3. Urinate on probe, 4. Probe gets lifted, 5. Snake moves tube and probe, 6. Snake twist or breaks wires in probe making the sensor fail. While placing the probe outside you have 1. Probe gets unplugged, 2. ???? I'm out.

I have come home to a broken a/c and my tstats did as they should and lowered the power which lowered the temp. I don't see how you are having different results

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First I'll address your concerns and then follow with an alternative view. Before that, though, I'd like to discuss the parameters to put this into context.

The tubing used is 1/2" PEX that has been bonded to the enclosure using plastic epoxy. I painted it with plastic paint a darker colour so it would match my substrate. I am using a HERPSTAT 2, with 1 probe on each end of the enclosure (Both are installed in the same fashion). The thermostat probe enters into the enclosure from the rear. The probe is held in place with the bread tag, as you already know. (Please ask questions if you need to know any more about my setup).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...98839703_n.jpg

Now your concerns.

1. Probe gets unplugged: There is slack on the probe cord behind the enclosure. If my snake were to somehow grab or get tangled in the probe it would have to drag the probe pretty far before it could pull out. In fact, I think the chances of this happening is very low.

2. Water spills: I have inquired with Drew if this will cause damage to the probe. Let's put this on hold till I hear back from the manufacturer of the thermostat.

3. Urinate on probe: As above with regards to liquid causing hardware damage. If you are speaking more towards the "dirt" aspect then it's not a concern at all. Just as I would expect all herpers to clean and disinfect their enclosures, I too would expect them to do that with everything inside the enclosure. If a snake urinates on the probe, I will clean, disinfect and dry it.

4. Probe gets lifted: If this happen then the temperature in that zone would increase. I tested this by lifting the probe so it faced straight up, and the resulting temperature increase was minimal. I also tested it by putting the probe above the substrate, and the floor of the enclosure once again did not increase by very much.

5. Snake moves tube and probe: The tube is not removable and the probe being moved I've addressed above.

6. Snake twist or breaks wires in probe making the sensor fail: Spyder Robotics probes are good quality. I cannot see my snake being able to do any damage at all to the cord. I am not saying it's not possible though - so yes, this is a valid concern, even if it is still not a major concern in my eyes.

An alternative is that this method works well.

My snakes enclosure is the exact correct temperature 365 days a year. If the thermostat probe it outside the enclosure then you need to tinker with it all year round...if you live in Toronto. What would happen if my snake lived in Toronto in a spare room? In winter the room can be 17 degrees Celsius and in the summer it could be 26 degrees [which is very possible in Toronto]. You would need to adjust the temperatures at least twice a year...no big deal. But, what if your room was 23 degrees during the day and 18 at night? (Like it is in my spare room, in Toronto). Would you be adjusting your thermostat every morning and night? Please explain to me how you would achieve a stable temperature inside with the outside temperature fluctuating throughout the day, every day?

What will I do though?

I will increase the tube all the way to the rear of the enclosure so that he cannot pull on the wire. Even though the chances now are tiny, I would rather they be eliminated. So thanks for that.

I will also cap the tube so that the probe cannot be moved, dirtied or become in contact with water. Thanks for that also.

My initial idea may not be perfect yet, but instead of saying "THAT'S BAD" How about saying.. "Try this, it will make your setup safer in my opinion".

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Originally Posted by KMG

I agree that the placement can depend on the snake but still say outside is best. I have probes mounted inside cages. They are for rhp and there is no other way. One issue with large snakes is their water bowl. My almost 6 ft blood is way to big to offer a tub to soak so to give her more space I use a smaller water bowl because there is no reason to offer a big one that she still can't soak in. She could easily flip anything you placed in there. The truth is probably most snakes could flip their water if they really wanted.

A issue you have is the tape. I realize that painters tape is more safe than most but what about this. A snake leads with its face and explores with its nose. What if your snakes did root around and lift the tape a bit and get it lifted. It has the potential to cover their face, eyes, mouth, or nose. This could be enough to kill them by suffocation. Just because you found a different method late doesn't mean you should not apply it.

Have you ever seem how hard it is for a dog to remove a piece of tape from their snout? They have legs with paws and its still difficult. What can a snake do? Freak out, spin around, and get more tangled.

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Yeah, I agree. Tape isn't a good idea.

I am still confused as to why you say having the probe on the outside of the enclosure requires you to mess with the settings. If your probe is directly on the heat source then it shouldn't matter. That is the point of the tstat to maintain a steady temp. So for arguement sake lets say you have the probe directly attached to the heat mat OUTSIDE the tank, and you set it to 92 degrees, you have a slight temp variance on the inside of the tank a few degrees off depending on material. Once you get it dialed in to the correct temp it will maintain that set temp. IF the temp drops in the room it will bump the power being delivered to that heat mat to again reach the temp you set it to, which in turn keeps the inside of the enclosure the same temp as before.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Yeah, I agree. Tape isn't a good idea.

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I too agree, tape inside the enclosure is a no no.

I have the probe for my ceramic in my viv inside the vivarium and have the probes for my heat mats outside of the tubs as that is how it worked out. Thermostat probes for ceramics are generally inside the vivarium as they are set up by the shops here in the UK so I don't see an issue if experienced reptile stores set up with the probe inside...

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Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

I have the probe for my ceramic in my viv inside the vivarium and have the probes for my heat mats outside of the tubs as that is how it worked out. Thermostat probes for ceramics are generally inside the vivarium as they are set up by the shops here in the UK so I don't see an issue if experienced reptile stores set up with the probe inside...

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How are the probes for the ceramic attached and where are they located inside the viv? I am not doubting that it can be safely done, I am questions the validity of the statement that having it outside vs inside actually makes a difference as I have done an experiment with it myself and there was no effect one way or another, once it is dialed in it is dialed in. There is no effect with temp drops in the room and having the probe on the outside, the tstat will set the correct temp.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I am still confused as to why you say having the probe on the outside of the enclosure requires you to mess with the settings. If your probe is directly on the heat source then it shouldn't matter. That is the point of the tstat to maintain a steady temp. So for arguement sake lets say you have the probe directly attached to the heat mat OUTSIDE the tank, and you set it to 92 degrees, you have a slight temp variance on the inside of the tank a few degrees off depending on material. Once you get it dialed in to the correct temp it will maintain that set temp. IF the temp drops in the room it will bump the power being delivered to that heat mat to again reach the temp you set it to, which in turn keeps the inside of the enclosure the same temp as before.

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Yeah that's true. I agree with your explanation that the probe outside should work just as well as inside to regulate the temperature correctly. I like having the probe inside, I suppose it's just a matter of what works for me and what works for you.

I am going to make the previously mentioned changes though, to ensure that having the probe inside is still safe.