Is there a point to having normal ball pythons? + breeding question

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

instead of saying things like "Female normals are very useful but males not so much" or "Normal males have little use in breeding", i would go one step further and say:

never breed normal males because it makes sense to breed genetically more powerful males to genetically less powerful females. i cannot think of a single situation where breeding a normal male makes sense.

if you can get a free normal female, take it. combos like jigsaw, bee, or pewter, can produce more jigsaws, bees, or pewters, when bred to just a normal female.

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Breeding to a normal male might be useful in cases where there is an unproven female morph. The only way to prove it out would be to pair it with a normal. :)

so... they aren't COMPLETELY useless, but I sure won't be keeping any around :P I have enough "useless" single gene males! lol

Breeding, no. But if hes giving you the normal male free, id say take it...cuz you can take it to your local pet shop n trade it in for feeders.

sent from my incubator

Females are good to have because they produce the babies.

A good breed to the mojo would be another mojo or even a lesser or butter

In the past I have kept and bred normal males. Then again I was breeding normals for local pet shops and that was a very large part of my income at the time. A male can be used as a breeder if you choose to do so just keep in mind that he will not be genetically awesome like a multi gene male would be. I for one will be keeping normal males in the future but that is a different story all together and for a project of my own.

I have a normal male that I will probably plug into a female or two in the future. I like his pattern and hope to tie that into some of my projects. Unlike a female who can only be bred once per year a male can get the job done several times over. It's a good way to quickly add diversity to your gene pools as you're able to plug him into several projects in the same year. I would never count out a normal male just because it's normal and a male - they have other things to bring to the table.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Breeding to a normal male might be useful in cases where there is an unproven female morph. The only way to prove it out would be to pair it with a normal. :)

so... they aren't COMPLETELY useless, but I sure won't be keeping any around :P I have enough "useless" single gene males! lol

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that is not entirely correct, in the case you describe i would go for a male super.

like a super pastel or super lesser or ivory or super fire.

this way you can still tell if the dinker does something genetic or not, because a super male to a normal female produces uniform clutches, and you can also check if it interacts with a known gene complex :D


EDIT: if the male is a very promising dinker its a different story. otherwise, breeding a normal male really does not make sense. breeding him into many projects in just one year makes even less sense, you could do that with a powerhouse 5-gene male instead.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

that is not entirely correct, in the case you describe i would go for a male super.

like a super pastel or super lesser or ivory or super fire.

this way you can still tell if the dinker does something genetic or not, because a super male to a normal female produces uniform clutches, and you can also check if it interacts with a known gene complex :D

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True, but if you are trying to single out a mystery gene a normal male can still be of use. You need to be able to properly identify the new "single gene" before you go selling off your brand new "proven" gene IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

that is not entirely correct, in the case you describe i would go for a male super.

like a super pastel or super lesser or ivory or super fire.

this way you can still tell if the dinker does something genetic or not, because a super male to a normal female produces uniform clutches, and you can also check if it interacts with a known gene complex :D


EDIT: if the male is a very promising dinker its a different story. otherwise, breeding a normal male really does not make sense. breeding him into many projects in just one year makes even less sense, you could do that with a powerhouse 5-gene male instead.

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no offense, but you seem to think every body has the same goals as you, and that the only male you want breeding is one of superior genetics than a female. not everyone has the same goals or reasons for breeding. I have seen like six or seven posts where you make the 'males must be genetically superior or multi gene animals' comment. while I agree with this for most breeding, it may actually be foolish if you are shooting for diversifying your blood lines or breeding for only certain morphs. I think some of the morphs are honestly stupid, because they have so many genes in them that you cannot even see half of them, what is the point in that, other than someone wanting to brag that their animal has more genetics....? I don't get it. some of the five, six, and seven gene combos are so washed out and bland, that I honestly don't see how the breeder can even say for sure what is in the animal....

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Breeding to a normal male might be useful in cases where there is an unproven female morph. The only way to prove it out would be to pair it with a normal. :)

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This is what I came to say. With other genes thrown into the mix, it's really hard to tell if you've got anything special going on or not. All three of my normals are pets, but depending on the female, I would use one of the males to prove out her genetics, or pick up another male that better fits her coloring and then just sell him after the season ends if she's proved out. They serve no other purpose genetically, unless you're looking to line-breed for a certain trait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

that is not entirely correct, in the case you describe i would go for a male super.

like a super pastel or super lesser or ivory or super fire.

this way you can still tell if the dinker does something genetic or not, because a super male to a normal female produces uniform clutches, and you can also check if it interacts with a known gene complex :D


EDIT: if the male is a very promising dinker its a different story. otherwise, breeding a normal male really does not make sense. breeding him into many projects in just one year makes even less sense, you could do that with a powerhouse 5-gene male instead.

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You say my statement isn't correct, yet you follow it up with an opinion.

There is no right and wrong here. If you want to breed a male normal then go for it. I am just presenting a hypothetical scenario in which a normal male might be useful for a breeder.

I doubt Brian Barczyk bred his first sunset ball python to a super like you describe. That wouldn't make any sense for him. He wants to single out ONE gene to determine if its genetic.

It would be very silly to try and prove out a new genetic mutation with a super animal. That is just my opinion, clearly yours differs. That does not make either of us CORRECT or INCORRECT.