black pastel vs cinnamon are they the same morph?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

When looking at good examples it's like nite and day to me :D

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LOL! A high quality normal is still a normal.:rofl:

TJ summed it up perfect. when looking at them side by side it's easier to tell a difference. just keep looking at pictures and going to shows and after a while you'll develop an "eye" for them and their differences. kinda like developing your palate when tasting wines. just takes time and practice. when i first started i couldn't pick out a yellowbelly from a normal to save my life. the lesser/butter thing though i'm not so sure about.. but i don't think i've seen very many single gene butters. our queenspin and kingspin supposedly have butter in them instead of lesser, but they look the same to me as their lesser counterparts.

Firstly,

Thanks everyone! I tried to be as accurate as possible lol...

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

If I compare all the pictures available of both,and not just pic and choose, they are the same. Just like lesser/butter.

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You also need to consider how many people wrongly list a black pastel as a cinnamon, and a cinnamon as a black pastel. Just because the picture comes up on google image search when you type in "cinnamon" doesn't mean that the picture is correct. I also saw a lot of cinnamons listed as black pastels when black pastels were newer and worth about 40% more than a cinnamon was at the time.

They are similar, not the same.
Think of Mojave and Phantom, Yellow Belly and Orange belly... etc.

Cinnamon and Black Pastel are allelic and in the same gene complex, but are *not* the same genetic mutation. They do look vastly distinct from each other. Both are a color and pattern morph.

The butter/lesser, Graziani/lemon pastel, orangebelly/yellowbelly examples are incorrect because they are the same genetic mutations. Just different lines of the same mutation.

Cinnys and Black Pastels are not different lines of the same mutation. They just lie on the same genetic loci, making them have similar traits.

An equivalent example would be fire, vanilla, and disco. 3 different morphs that are similar, but not the same. They are all allelic to each other and do very similar things in combos.

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

If I compare all the pictures available of both,and not just pic and choose, they are the same. Just like lesser/butter.

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I can't tell lessers and butters apart, they're the same to me. If someone says they can tell them apart then i think they're full of crap.

I can however, tell cinnies from black pastels though. Just because you can't, doesn't mean that they're the same thing.

Also, you say cinnies are all normal? Well then i love my normals lol!
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/24/e6y9edaj.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/24/ry2amu8e.jpg
Compared to my normal they look pretty different.... :rolleyes:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/24/2ejyqanu.jpg

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Cinnamon and Black Pastel are allelic and in the same gene complex, but are *not* the same genetic mutation. They do look vastly distinct from each other. Both are a color and pattern morph.

The butter/lesser, Graziani/lemon pastel, orangebelly/yellowbelly examples are incorrect because they are the same genetic mutations. Just different lines of the same mutation.

Cinnys and Black Pastels are not different lines of the same mutation. They just lie on the same genetic loci, making them have similar traits.

An equivalent example would be fire, vanilla, and disco. 3 different morphs that are similar, but not the same. They are all allelic to each other and do very similar things in combos.

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I find orangebelly and yellowbelly to be distinct enough (especially in their homozygous forms) to be considered their own genetic mutations - but if you want to make it indisputable, you can compare Spark to Gravel, Yellowbelly to Asphalt.

While some people have thought they were the same morph, they aren't. They have quite a few differences, though however some times I'm sure they can look similar to people who may not know what they're looking for.

A super cinnamon is brown, while a super black pastel is all black.

i understand now, that post cleared it all up for me tj. thank you all for your posts and help i appreciate your time and i hope you all have learned as much as i have lol :)

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Cinnamon and Black Pastel are allelic and in the same gene complex, but are *not* the same genetic mutation. They do look vastly distinct from each other. Both are a color and pattern morph.

The butter/lesser, Graziani/lemon pastel, orangebelly/yellowbelly examples are incorrect because they are the same genetic mutations. Just different lines of the same mutation.

Cinnys and Black Pastels are not different lines of the same mutation. They just lie on the same genetic loci, making them have similar traits.

An equivalent example would be fire, vanilla, and disco. 3 different morphs that are similar, but not the same. They are all allelic to each other and do very similar things in combos.

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This pretty much sums it up. Very similar, but not the same.