Siamese and Blues??

I haven't noticed any more issues with my Siamese then with any of my others. Mine tend to be good moms and usually not super aggressive. I had 1 that took a chunk out if me once and it was a Siamese Rex but then I have had others try as well. I do currently have 1 with a head tilt but again I had a black hooded with the same thing before her.

As for blues, I know someone who does great with them and I even have some of his stock. Blue females don't like me.. They tend to die while having or just after their first litter, but are fine up till then. I currently have 2, one is on her second or third litter and is looking awful, if she survives this batch I need to pull her for a bit, which I rarely have to do. The other one looks great but I don't think I have had a litter from her yet. But again, I know other breeders that do great with them!

Blues have had a history of health problems, particularly hemophilia. However this is not directly attributed to the color itself, but more likely to certain bloodlines. The most accepted hypothesis is that when blue was first discovered, and subsequently became popular, it was indiscriminately bred to produce more blue. Health was ignored, and as a result those rats with health problems produced babies who inherited the health problems, and thus perpetuated the issue. Hemophilia has been the most widely documented (within the pet hobby) health problem suffered by blue rats. The best way to avoid this issue is to obtain healthy animals from healthy lines and work to breed healthy animals to healthy animals, and keep records on your litters to be sure you are breeding healthy animals. Any animal with issues should be removed from the breeding program. A relative of an animal with a health problem should be bred after great consideration, with more reservation being placed on close direct relatives (siblings, parents, grandparents). This of course takes extra effort, in terms of record keeping and observation. For many feeder operations this may not be worthwhile. Also note, this only applies to "blue" (and all its synonyms), and not Russian Blue. Russian Blue is an entirely different gene and has not been found to have the same issues.

Where Siamese is concerned... like blue, when it was discovered and became popular, it was bred to anything and everything to produce more. No considerations for temperament were made, and somewhere down the line aggressive animals were introduced and produced more aggressive animals, and so on. As these rats are inbred to produce more of the same color, that propensity for aggression was concentrated into the bloodline, and more aggressive animals were produced. Thus Siamese obtained the reputation of being aggressive. However this is not a trait of the pattern itself, but rather of bloodline. If you want to breed Siamese, obtain friendly, well-tempered animals and only breed friendly and well-tempered animals. Consider not just the animal's temperament toward you, but also toward other rats. Cull any animal that shows any sign of aggression, toward people or other rats. Temperament is easier and less time consumer to select for than health, because it is more easily and more immediately observed. You pick out babies who are inquisitive and friendly, over babies who are nervous, shy, and skittish. Any animal that bites is an obvious cull. Out of those babies you keep, you then keep the mothers who are willing to let you handle your babies, and aren't overly nervous, anxious, and certainly don't bite. Any biting mothers get culled. Then out of those babies you again select the most inquisitive, friendly, calm babies. And so on. Keep in mind that rats, especially males, can develop aggressive behaviors as they hit full maturity around 6 months of age. This is when the hormones really starts surging. If you breed males before this age, and they then become aggressive (either toward you or other rats), you'll want to cull them and be cautious about keeping and breeding their offspring. Once you know your lines well enough and you are confident you've cemented in good temperament, you may not have to worry about it as much, but especially in the beginning you need to keep this in mind.

In the past I've only dabbled in American Blue, and didn't have huge issues. One rat was allergic to almost everything under the sun though. I've worked with Siamese (and other colorpoints) extensively, and had no temperament issues at all. My rats were very friendly and affectionate, but I also selected very strongly for good temperament.

My blues are some of the nicest rats, and I've never noticed any issues regarding breeding for either my blues or my siamese. I think it's more lines than the actual color genes. In other words "Bob's Blues" might have issues, but not all blues... same for Siamese... "Kate's Siamese line" might be aggro, but not all siamese.

The closest I've had to an issue was the siamese sometimes grab a finger when I open bins because they think I'm handing out treats. Only my siamese and albinos ever seem to do this. The rest 'see' it's a finger. I think this is the red/albino eyes having issues earlier, since it's also only older rats, not the younger albinos or siamese.

I can say that I've bred both and actually had a really nice siamese line going for a while. My siamese rats were the most laid back out of all of them, but I had really sweet and relaxed stock that they were bred from. Just be careful of where and who you get the from and don't breed any rats that have noticeable health or temperament issues.

Some interesting information in this thread glad I got it going.

The tips on culling the aggressive ones I was already going to do. Tbh I didn't think culling the aggressive and keeping the calm would lead to a more friendly rat down the road. I guess I can see that working as a mental trait being passed down.

Excited to be working with Siamese picking them up on Sunday at my local show. The guy who sells the rats has very tame ones that are all handled on a daily basis from him, his wife and children.

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Originally Posted by Diamond Serpents

Tbh I didn't think culling the aggressive and keeping the calm would lead to a more friendly rat down the road.

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Aggression in rodents is heritable, so culling will help establish a nice tame colony.

I've seen many blues and siamese rats do just fine with breeding and raising young :confusd:

i find that Siamese have the same temperament as other rats

i had 7 blues two all blue and six blue hooded out of the 7 only one was a good mom she gave birth to 25 babies but 3 died at birth and one died later so she had 21 babies she never had a big litter again but like someone said the blues look like :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: after raising their babies and it does not seem to matter if it 3 or 23 babies they look the same at the end out of the 7 only 3 would have baby the two all blue and one of the hooded blues the one hooded blue could not nurse her litter at all one over the all blue would have around 12 babies but she would all ways end up with 3 i think the blues have trouble lating milk for their babies so out of 7 one was a good breeder 2 could not take care of there babies and 4 never bred i was hoping they would so i never fed them off thei just die around 2 years old