Big bull snakes

That is exactly what I said. Re-read what you just quoted

"Technically there are only 3 different species of Pituophis and they don't line up with bull, pine or gopher.

Who ever told you that west coast east coast thing was wrong. They are different sub-species not localities. "

Take a look at this for the 3 different species aspect. You might not be able to read the entire article but at least you can read the abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...5579039990698X

Having bred both, bulls and gophers they are not that similar. Their head scales are different, sizes are different and their color genes are different. For example, bulls have the axanthic trait while gophers have anery. Great basins have the motley trait which isn't found in bulls.


Also, P. catenifer is just a generic name used for the group of bulls and gophers. There is no animal that is "Pituophis catenifer" because that is a multi-species complex. There are only sub-species under this species designation. There are multiple sub-species of gopher snake, not just one. Look here for that:

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRp...h_value=209400

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

That is exactly what I said. Re-read what you just quoted

"Technically there are only 3 different species of Pituophis and they don't line up with bull, pine or gopher.

Who ever told you that west coast east coast thing was wrong. They are different sub-species not localities. "

Take a look at this for the 3 different species aspect. You might not be able to read the entire article but at least you can read the abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...5579039990698X

Having bred both, bulls and gophers they are not that similar. Their head scales are different, sizes are different and their color genes are different. For example, bulls have the axanthic trait while gophers have anery. Great basins have the motley trait which isn't found in bulls.


Also, P. catenifer is just a generic name used for the group of bulls and gophers. There is no animal that is "Pituophis catenifer" because that is a multi-species complex. There are only sub-species under this species designation. There are multiple sub-species of gopher snake, not just one. Look here for that:

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRp...h_value=209400

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I am sorry. I only responded because you said that bull snakes and gophers are completely different. What I thought you meant is that they are like a different species are something.

However bull snakes are scientifically classified as a sub- species of gopher snake. I never said that there was only one subspecies of gopher. Bull snakes are one of many .

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/bull-snake-facts.html.

I just originally thought that you said gopher snakes and bull snakes are as far apart as garter snakes and canned yams. What you really meant is that they are closely related but there are some physical differences as far as colors and maybe size.

Look at the last link i posted. That is a scientific link, not just someone's random dot com website. The "gopher snake" is a multi-species complex. Calling a snake Pituophis catenifer is meaningless because there are 6 different subspecies under that name. There is no animal called Pituophis catenifer anymore. You are getting hung up on common names which don't mean anything. Saying you have a gopher snake is like saying you have a python. It really doesn't mean anything unless you specify what type. I have been a taxonomist for 6 years now. I understand very, very well how taxonomy works both at the morphological and genetic level.

Don't put words in my mouth. What I meant to say is what I said. " They are genetically and morphological distinct" and "Gophers are different than bulls big time!" Bulls get large and are more heavy bodied than any of the gopher subspecies. Their heads look different and they act different. I never said completely different. Again you are putting words in my mouth.

I suggest you read the links I posted before trying to tell me what I mean.

Great bull info: I can't wait to see how big my snow male grows up to be!

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Great bull info: I can't wait to see how big my snow male grows up to be!

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I did not mean to offend you. I don't see the point in arguing.

The only reason I listed pituophis catenifer is that every snake labeled "pituophis catenifer" ssp. is considered a gopher snake. The bull snake is Pituophis Catenifer sayi. So they are technically the same species. Just a different subspecies right? This a question I am not trying to be a prick. I don't know a heck of a lot about taxonomy. I just know that "Pituophis" is the genus and "catenifer" is the species. As far as looking different. I think bull snakes and gophers look and behave very similarly. They may have different colors/patterns but they are not that different. The way I see it, Gopher to bull snake is the same as Eastern Garter to Common garter snake. They are basically the same snake. Just some minor differences.

Would it be accurate to describe bull snakes as the largest type of gopher snake?