Nuking Mites from Orbit with AaronP

"Permethrin" is a family of chemicals not an individual one.

No offence but I'd prefer to use the one that has been tested and found safe on reptiles.

Provent-a-mite also has a 25-30 day residual effect which the others do not.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

"Permethrin" is a family of chemicals not an individual one.

No offence but I'd prefer to use the one that has been tested and found safe on reptiles.

Provent-a-mite also has a 25-30 day residual effect which the others do not.


dr del

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Not to mention the other 99.5% of the formula that is not necessarily the same. Aaron's writeup is clever and thorough, but I would not be comfortable combining so many chemicals in one space (it would be unreasonable for me to move every rack out of the house for application and drying of so many chemicals). A conservative dose of PAM in the QT tub before every new addition and selective buying from quality breeders has saved me from EVER seeing a mite on my BPs. I do feel for you folks that can't get PAM, though.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

That $8 bottle won't treat 20+ snakes 4 times. It's also not available everywhere. I'm not saying that this is the easiest method, I'm saying this is the most thorough. A single 6oz can of PAM/RID/Lice Spray will last you a long time if you're only using it for standard QT and I've personally had PAM get the job done by itself but some times it isn't that simple and sometimes you gotta put the extra effort into it.

This entire thing came about because PAM alone wasn't doing it and it was getting very expensive very quick. Not to mention losing valuable time because of being unable to find viable solutions locally that was specifically made for reptiles.

What is the active ingredient in Reptile Spray?

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Active Ingredients
Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate - 2.1%
Undecylenic Acid - 0.5%

The thing with Reptile Spray is it is all natural ingredients, so you don't have to worry about scary chemicals. I used it after KMG suggested it and it worked perfectly in just one use. Because it was recent I'm still keeping an eye out but I'm not at all concerned. It was cheap and after cleaning my 40 gallon tank, large water dish, 2 hides, branch, and feeding container I still have most of the bottle left!

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Originally Posted by dr del

"Permethrin" is a family of chemicals not an individual one.

No offence but I'd prefer to use the one that has been tested and found safe on reptiles.

Provent-a-mite also has a 25-30 day residual effect which the others do not.


dr del

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Ah, the great advertising game.

PAM is advertised as being tested on animals. The bang on Nix and Rid and Sawyer's is that they have not.

Indulge me for a moment here Derek.

Let's say that tomorrow we found out that plain seltzer water kills mites. Let's also say that there are exactly four manufacturers of seltzer water. All of the formulations are the same - H2O and carbonation.

One of those manufacturers, Spritz-O-Mite, pays to have their seltzer water tested on snakes, the others do not. The tests show that - using reasonable caution - Spritz-O-Mite kills mites and does not immediately kill the snake (I say immediately because none of the tests have been run to show long term impacts).

Does that make Spritz-O-Might safer to use as a mite treatment than the three other seltzer waters with the same formulation that are sold as drinking water?

No, it doesn't.

When you buy PAM, you are in essence buying a seltzer water that has been tested on snakes and comes with directions for applying it on snakes. The other products have not been tested and do not come with instruction. If that puts your mind at ease using PAM - there is nothing wrong with that.

By the way, Sawyer's Clothing Spray - sold for a fraction of the price of PAM and (until recently) made by the same manufacturer and sharing the same EPA product number - also claims a 30 day residual effect.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1596643

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2058371

Note that the links may not work anymore. Additionally, at some point during the last 18 months, PAM has changed manufacturers and has a new product number.

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Originally Posted by Samii

Active Ingredients
Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate - 2.1%
Undecylenic Acid - 0.5%

The thing with Reptile Spray is it is all natural ingredients, so you don't have to worry about scary chemicals. I used it after KMG suggested it and it worked perfectly in just one use. Because it was recent I'm still keeping an eye out but I'm not at all concerned. It was cheap and after cleaning my 40 gallon tank, large water dish, 2 hides, branch, and feeding container I still have most of the bottle left!

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I'm not saying that it doesn't work or that you should never use it but if you seriously think it has "All natural ingredients" you've been drinking the advertising kool-aid.

The information I provided is not based on me going into walgreens and deciding I knew what I was doing, it was based on research I had done through dozens of different websites as well as calling and talking to individuals who claim to use the NIX Method. The PAM/RID/Lice Spray are all exactly the same, period, that isn't even speculation I know that because when I was able to get access to PAM for QT I bought a can of Lice Spray and not only does it have the same fumes but it works exactly the same.

I didn't create this thread to start up a debate on how some people prefer to remove mights and pre-treat for them. This is the methodology that I use and it has proven to be detrimental to the mites. In a perfect world you would never get mites and you would properly QT every new snake but that doesn't always happen and mites is just one of those things that gets out of control.

On another note I would never only treat a snake for mites once and only once no matter what the bottle says it kills. PAM supposedly kills the eggs too but you're still told to treat a week later.

Indeed,

And I also know that carbon comes in many forms while being chemically identical.

Given the choice of buckminsterfullerenes, soot, graphite or diamond I am also aware that they will generate different reactions when presented to your significant other. :P

I like the testing - it prevents divorce or contusion of the testicles. :rofl:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Indeed,

And I also know that carbon comes in many forms while being chemically identical.

Given the choice of buckminsterfullerenes, soot, graphite or diamond I am also aware that they will generate different reactions when presented to your significant other. :P

I like the testing - it prevents divorce or contusion of the testicles. :rofl:


dr del

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The difference we're talking about there though is more like Dasani (Coca Cola Co) Water vs Aquafina (Pepsi Co) water. They're both water with a different label. You're also wrong in the Pemethrin is not a family of Chemicals, Permethrid is part of the pyrethroids family of chemicals.

I agree with Skip, however:


I pay how much for my snakes?


I'll pay the extra couple of bucks for the peace of mind like Del said. If I'm worried about scratching and scraping over 10 bucks, I'll find a new hobby.


*puts snake back into rubbermaid bin on paper towel sheets from dollar store*

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Originally Posted by Samii

The thing with Reptile Spray is it is all natural ingredients, so you don't have to worry about scary chemicals.

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FDA policy says that the term natural should apply to foods and products that do not contain added color, artificial flavors, or synthetic substances, but the definition is very vague. So, basically, the pesticide is not synthetic but it is still a pesticide. That makes it toxic, natural or not, and just as scary if used improperly. Many hallucinogenics are all natural, but that doesn't make them good for you. These days, many synthetic pesticides are as safe as natural if used in the proper manner (many synthetic pesticides from the past caused serious harm from overuse rather than simply because they were used at all), but they're both toxic and should be used as sparingly as possible. I think AaronP's method is a great way of getting it done if you can't get it under control any other way, but I would try using minimal pesticides *first* and if the mites aren't gone in a week or so, up the attack then. Mites are horrible, but both synthetic and natural pesticides can kill any kind of animal if ingested in large doses, and while we might have to drink the toxin, it takes a lot less to harm an animal so small. IMHO, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Puck

I think AaronP's method is a great way of getting it done if you can't get it under control any other way, but I would try using minimal pesticides *first* and if the mites aren't gone in a week or so, up the attack then. Mites are horrible, but both synthetic and natural pesticides can kill any kind of animal if ingested in large doses, and while we might have to drink the toxin, it takes a lot less to harm an animal so small. IMHO, anyway.

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I absolutely agree with Puck. My method is really only for dealing with an infestation not a new animal that got mites. For situations like that just use PAM/RID/Lice Spray or Reptile Spray (didn't this used to be called Reptile Relief?) or whatever over the counter method you prefer. Whoever if you get a Mite infestation outside of the QT Zone then I would recommend my method. The key to any treatment is persistence though. Do a treatment once a week for 2-3 weeks this will insure the highest possibility of success no matter what product/method you use.