Angolan Pythons

I plan on eventually having a pair of Angolan's.
They will continue to sell as they become more well known in captive breeding.
As pointed out they are uncommon in wild caught due to some nasty wars and the residual munitions.
If yours was the ad I am thinking of the snakes you listed in trade work out to a little bit higher than the current value of a pair of Angolan's (I personally have not seen even a proven pair go much better than $1500). So, that may account for the lack of interest.
The similarities with Ball's and the slightly larger size would make these snakes very popular if any morphs start turning up. That and their natural bead like scales.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

I plan on eventually having a pair of Angolan's.
They will continue to sell as they become more well known in captive breeding.
As pointed out they are uncommon in wild caught due to some nasty wars and the residual munitions.
If yours was the ad I am thinking of the snakes you listed in trade work out to a little bit higher than the current value of a pair of Angolan's (I personally have not seen even a proven pair go much better than $1500). So, that may account for the lack of interest.
The similarities with Ball's and the slightly larger size would make these snakes very popular if any morphs start turning up. That and their natural bead like scales.

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For the most part, you are absolutely correct. But there are a couple of breeders here in the US who can/do market even babies for a bit higher. Justin Julander of Australian Addictions sells babies for $1600 and Casey Lazik sells them for about the same. But there are only 4 breeders I know of who can demand these prices - Justin Julander, Casey Lazik, Trooper Walsh, and Chad Duggin. Anyone else is simply starting out in the species and/or is simply just not as well known - and their stock is therefore unknown. Therefore, we cannot demand the same prices that the bigwigs do. That doesn't drive the market down - remember, who did I go to for my pair? One of the bigwigs even though it meant paying more.

Also, there is a morph in Angolans. Casey Lazik has been working with a hypo gene which appears to create a much lighter, more caramel-colored animal. Very beautiful. It has proven genetic, although off-hand I cannot remember if its showing to be dominant or recessive. Prices for a pair including ONE hypo are pushing $4000 or more last I heard IF he even makes one available..........

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Good luck with that. I seriously doubt their prices will go down any further. These pythons are rare in captivity due to the long civil war in Angola. Although the war is over, the fields and forests are covered with land mines, and few dare to risk catching these pythons in their natural habitat. And it is still a country of extreme civil unrest. The wild capture and exportation of these pythons is highly unlikely making the bloodlines we have here in the US very coveted. Hence the high price tag.

You have to understand that Angolans are rare enough in the reptile hobby that many people don't even know what they are. And once they learn about them, it'll take time to realize that the $1000+ price tag for a pair is worth it. Angolans just do not endeavor a market in the same way ball python morphs do and there is not a huge market or following for them like there is with balls. As such, those who want them are willing to pay for them.

But it's harder to find someone willing to buy from a relative unknown in this species. I will be honest with you, I purchased a 1.1 pair only a few weeks ago - from Chad Duggin. Why did I choose him even though I paid a bit more? Because he is one of the foremost breeders of Angolans in the US. He is working with the 2 bloodlines I personally desire (Trooper Walsh and Casey Lazik lines) and his female is producing 14+ egg clutches with mulitple twins and my 2 will be line bred on her. Once I build up a breeding group and produce some nice offspring, I can begin marketing them - with some help and input from Chad who is well-known in the field. I hope to build up a solid reputation with these snakes as this is the species I wish to specialize in.

I am in NO way criticizing you, but your ads leave out a few important details which might be important to serious buyers. In your first ad, you are asking to trade. Well, unless someone has those snakes you list, no one's going to really jump on that. And your second ad mentions that they are "reduced" but you don't say what they are reduced to. What exactly are you asking for these snakes? (don't answer that here - as Deborah mentioned, this is not the place to post the details). What are their bloodlines? Do you have documentation of those bloodlines from the original seller/breeder? These are things that should be in the ad. I may well have inquired on them myself if this information had been there from the start. Again, I mean NO disrespect - only trying to help you!!

Lastly, one should never get a species because they might be a good investment. You should always choose a species because you love it and truly enjoy working with it. Angolans are not everyone's cup of tea, however, once one has been bitten by the Angolan bug, there's no going back. These snakes are truly amazing!! They have a boa's personality in a ball python's body. Best of both worlds!

If your pair is still available, pm me. I may still be interested. ;)

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Well I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't agree that the price on these animals will not continue to fall. They are not going to drop like the new bp morph, but they will go down as more people breed them and more become available. The first pair I ever saw in person were priced at almost $20 000. Mind you that was almost 15 years ago and at the time the civil war was still on in Angola. But still they have already gone from 20k to $600. The other side of the coin is as stated that as more people become aware of these animals the demand for them will undoubtedly go up as well. There's nothing wrong with keeping animals that happen to be a good investment, as long as your motivation to keep them is a love for the species not your love for money. I keep plenty of animals that are worthless, and some that I simply won't breed because its to difficult to find buyers that I feel would be capable of keeping the offspring responsibly and safely.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

Well I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't agree that the price on these animals will not continue to fall. They are not going to drop like the new bp morph, but they will go down as more people breed them and more become available. The first pair I ever saw in person were priced at almost $20 000. Mind you that was almost 15 years ago and at the time the civil war was still on in Angola. But still they have already gone from 20k to $600. The other side of the coin is as stated that as more people become aware of these animals the demand for them will undoubtedly go up as well. There's nothing wrong with keeping animals that happen to be a good investment, as long as your motivation to keep them is a love for the species not your love for money. I keep plenty of animals that are worthless, and some that I simply won't breed because its to difficult to find buyers that I feel would be capable of keeping the offspring responsibly and safely.

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Oh I am sure they will actually come down a wee bit more, but I don't think they will come down drastically. Right now you can buy a 1.1 pair for anywhere from $1000-1600 depending on who you buy from. I have seen lone males available for as low as $500 but females for no less than $700. We might see these prices dip down by another 100 for individuals and we might see pairs available for around 700-800 one day, but I truly think that's as low as they'll go. Not trying to argue at all - and no one can fully predict the market. Who knows - we may actually see the price go UP one day....

And there absolutely is nothing wrong with keeping animals that will make a good investment. But I don't agree that you should get a specific species for that reason alone. Doing that is one way to burn out quickly in this hobby. There should, at the very least, be an interest in working with that species and learning more about that species. I completely agree with you here - keep the species you have because you are motivated by a love for and an interest in the species and not a love for money. :gj: