het clown?

I've found pied and hypo het markers to be pretty reliable proving quite a few times for me. Just starting with my first possible het clown but I really like his look. Maybe in another 10 years I can comment on the co-dominant tendencies of the clown gene.

It's an ongoing subject of debate. Many people say that there are certain 'tells' or traits to see if a specific animal can be het for one mutation or another. I personally don't put much stock in it. I can find many of the same tells in my group of normals which I know for a fact are completely normal. However there are enough people out there that claim that they can pick out the hets from a group of normals that there may be something to it but I prefer not to trust my money to someone else's guesses no matter how educated they believe those guesses to be.

Why is it such a stretch for people to believe that markers are there for a reason.
Every pairing is going to alter the outcome with both sets of genetics.
The two traits TOGETHER make up the new snake, pastel + normal genes or het clown + normal gene.
Is it really that hard for people to see that the het traits alter the normal gene just as a pastel does, or any other incomplete dominant(heterozygous) trait does?

They are all heterozygous traits after all.

Agreed with Jerry.
100%

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Originally Posted by tikigator

What??? :weirdface

If EITHER parent is visual all offspring are 100% hets.......

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nope. the only SURE way is the female being the visual with any recessive. with a visual male most likely the offspring will carry the gene, but there are things that can go wrong so I wouldn't say it's 100% for sure.

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Originally Posted by tikigator

What??? :weirdface

If EITHER parent is visual all offspring are 100% hets.......

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Theoretically, yes.
But not always the case. Retained sperm from a previous season should also be taken into account if the female is not visual.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Theoretically, yes.
But not always the case. Retained sperm from a previous season should also be taken into account if the female is not visual.

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Well I was not getting into poor breeding practices I was talking about offspring with one "parent" being visual (for sake of keeping it simple let's say 2 virgin snakes) the offspring WILL be 100% het if either of the parents are visual. It does not matter which was the visual. That was my point.

People breeding multiple males or females multiple times without a clutch being laid is an entirely different issue. Like a friend of mine who bred his normal to a calico a dozen times and got an entire clutch of pinstripes.....yep....... ;)

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Why is it such a stretch for people to believe that markers are there for a reason.
Every pairing is going to alter the outcome with both sets of genetics.

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I think its a stretch because not all markers prove to be true. And not all hets have them. Like I said before I have seen 100% het pieds prove with zero markers and I owned a 100% normal that had perfect het pied track markers and a head stamp! They just aren't accurate that's all. If I gave you a clutch of 8 50% het clowns do you feel confident you could pick out the hets based on markers? Same with a clutch of 50% het pieds? I could pick out the ones with markers but I wouldn't put money on them proving or the ones I didn't pick not proving.

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Originally Posted by tikigator

If I gave you a clutch of 8 50% het clowns do you feel confident you could pick out the hets based on markers? Same with a clutch of 50% het pieds? I could pick out the ones with markers but I wouldn't put money on them proving or the ones I didn't pick not proving.

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So far I've proven four possible het pied females and two possible het males all picked based on the markers and most of them where only 25% chance hets. I have a 12.5% chance het pied female with excellent markers that I have no doubt will prove as soon as I get eggs from her.

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Originally Posted by tikigator

If I gave you a clutch of 8 50% het clowns do you feel confident you could pick out the hets based on markers? Same with a clutch of 50% het pieds? I could pick out the ones with markers but I wouldn't put money on them proving or the ones I didn't pick not proving.

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I have not produced pieds so no I don't think I could but give me a few years of producing them and I bet I'd get pretty good at identifying them.
I have produced a good number of het clowns, yes I believe I could accurately pull out the true hets from the non hets and have clutches of pos het clowns coming that I plan on sharing.