switching from f/t to live?

There are pros and cons about both and it's ultimately up to you about what you feed. I personally feed my corn snakes frozen thawed and my ball pythons live.

Pros of Live Feeding

• Considered by some to be more "natural" because it's what they eat in the wild
• Doesn't require freezer space to keep frozen rodents in bulk
• You can breed your own food which helps to balance out the cost - you can also sell your extras to other people and pet stores that sell feeders

Cons of Live Feeding

• Costly - I find that it's cheaper to buy in bulk online then going to a petshop to get feeder rats every week
• There is a risk of injury to the snake - the snake can (and will if you aren't careful) get bitten by it's dinner
• If your snake doesn't eat, then you have to have a "leftover tank" with food and water for your rodents
• In some places, it's not as easily accessible as F/T feeders

Pros of F/T Feeding

• You can bulk order your rodents and store them in a freezer. Then you only shell out money once every few months
• Your rodents can't bite your snake
• Some people consider it more convenient

Cons of F/T Feeding

• It fills up your freezer with rats - sometimes you have to purchase your own freezer because the mother, wife, significant other doesn't want rodents in the human freezer
• If you don't thaw it out long enough, it can kill your snake
• Not every snake will take F/T. Some need something with a heartbeat
• You can't really have leftovers - you have to throw out wasted food because of issues with refreezing

These are just a few of the pros/cons of both methods of feeding. Ultimately it's up to you and what your snake will or will not eat for you.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

There really is no pretty way to prekill rodents. Building a little gas chamber is the best method...Co2 canister, tubing, and a rubbermaid container will do it.

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CO2 is not the right gas to kill rhodents, because mammals can detect any rise of CO2 levels in the blood and this will cause cramps, panic, convulsions, pain. Its quite quick, but not nice. this CO2 buildup is what makes death by drowning or lung failure or asphyxiation so terrible.

Go for helium or any other noble gas or just nitrogen, takes longer but the mammals just fall asleep and realize nothing, because they can keep exhaling the CO2. Or, the best, nitrous oxide, painless and super fast. on youtube you can see crazy people doing it for fun.

but, really, STAY AWAY from CO2, of all available choices, of all that you can easily get in a pressurized can, its about the worst choice you can make. except for maybe ammonia or chlorine. Spread the word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

CO2 is not the right gas to kill rhodents, because mammals can detect any rise of CO2 levels in the blood and this will cause cramps, panic, convulsions, pain. Its quite quick, but not nice. this CO2 buildup is what makes death by drowning or lung failure or asphyxiation so terrible.

Go for helium or any other noble gas or just nitrogen, takes longer but the mammals just fall asleep and realize nothing, because they can keep exhaling the CO2. Or, the best, nitrous oxide, painless and super fast. on youtube you can see crazy people doing it for fun.

but, really, STAY AWAY from CO2, of all available choices, of all that you can easily get in a pressurized can, its about the worst choice you can make. except for maybe ammonia or chlorine. Spread the word.

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NYU school of medicine saays

Guidelines for Performing Euthanasia via C02
For rodent species, CO2 is an acceptable form of euthanasia when used under the following guidelines:

We do not recommend prefilling (precharging) the euthanasia chamber with CO2, since high concentrations (>70%) can cause nasal irritation and excitability. Rather, the animals should first be placed into the chamber, followed by the addition of CO2 at a low flow rate (20% of the chamber volume per minute) to complete the process. Rapid gas flows should be avoided since excessive noises ("winds") can develop and induce excitement/distress in the animals.

Place the animals into the chamber and turn the red lever until you hear gas flowing at a low rate.

Gas flow should be maintained for at least 1 minute after apparent clinical death (approximately 5 minutes total). A timer should be used to ensure adequate length of exposure.

It is important to confirm that an animal is dead after removing it from the chamber. This may be accomplished by assuring lack of heartbeat or by performing cervical dislocation following CO2 narcosis or creation of a pneumothorax following CO2 narcosis.

According to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, "Compressed CO2 gas in cylinders is the only recommended source of carbon dioxide because the inflow to the chamber can be regulated precisely. CO2 generated by other methods such as from dry ice, fire extinguishers, or chemical means (e.g. antacids) is unacceptable."

Only one species at a time should be placed into a chamber, and the chambers must not be overcrowded. Animals must meet the minimum space requirements listed in the "GUIDE" up until the time of euthanasia. When placed into the chamber, all animals must have floor space.

Euthanasia should always be done in cohorts (live animals should not be placed in the chamber with dead animals).

Chambers should be kept clean to minimize odors that might distress animals prior to euthanasia.

Animals must not be euthanized in animal housing rooms, except under special circumstances such as during quarantine for infectious disease agents.

Neonates: Since the time period for euthanasia is substantially prolonged in neonatal rodents (rodents 13-16 days) inherent resistance to hypoxia, CO2 narcosis must be followed by decapitation after the animals lose consciousness.


If you do it right they pass out
so this whole thing with it 'not being pretty' is a bowl of poop

You shouldn't have a problem getting him to eat a live mouse. And he shouldn't get hurt, just make sure the mouse isn't too big. Just slightly thicker than your snake is perfectly fine.

Feeding live is perfectly fine. If you want your snake to grow faster try rats. When i switched my normal over to rats he started growing like crazy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

CO2 is not the right gas to kill rhodents, because mammals can detect any rise of CO2 levels in the blood and this will cause cramps, panic, convulsions, pain. Its quite quick, but not nice. this CO2 buildup is what makes death by drowning or lung failure or asphyxiation so terrible.

Go for helium or any other noble gas or just nitrogen, takes longer but the mammals just fall asleep and realize nothing, because they can keep exhaling the CO2. Or, the best, nitrous oxide, painless and super fast. on youtube you can see crazy people doing it for fun.

but, really, STAY AWAY from CO2, of all available choices, of all that you can easily get in a pressurized can, its about the worst choice you can make. except for maybe ammonia or chlorine. Spread the word.

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There's not much proof out there saying other gases make for a more pleasant death than Co2. There is plentiful information and studies that have been done, and they seem to remain inconclusive.

you cannot ask rhodents about how dfferent gases feel.

But you can ask humans that almost died or got knocked unconscious by different gases. And all mammals share certain similarities.

So my rejection of CO2 and recommendation of alternatives is entirely based on human witness accounts. since nitrous oxide has a long history of being used to initiate anaesthesia in humans without complaints by patients and also because ive experienced it myself, i would use this to knock out the rhodents, then switch to something else when they are unconscious or jsut finish them with more nitrous oxide.

You cannot deny that CO2 got some really bad reputation from events that happened on some submarines or apollo 13 or divers or people that almost died from lung failure, all these accounts seem to agree: a rise in CO2-concentration in the blood really sucks.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Feeding live is fine, just supervise the feedings: no leaving a live mouse/rat in with the snake unattended. I wouldn't think the snake would refuse a live feeder if it takes f/t fine.

Personally though, all but two of my snakes eat f/t and it's my preferred feeding method (those two just WON'T take f/t). Just a lot easier for me: I can buy in bulk and just just de-thaw, warm up, and offer. I've read some snakes get "stuck" on live and have a hard time going back to f/t so if your preference is f/t I'd stay with f/t.

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I have a baby enchi that is stuck on live. The breeder had her to F/t and then she didn't eat it one week so he gave her live and we haven't been able to get her back to frozen. that being said I have been luck enough to switch a few of my snakes over to f/t from live. You might have luck if your snake is young enough but none of my adults that have been eating live for 2+ years will even look at a f/t let alone eat it.
f/t is for sure easier, even if your gf gets creeped out by it. its cheaper, easier and if your snake refuses it you dont have to have a cage for the mouse till next feeding day.

just my opinion but i feed live, its more natural and that's what snakes do ,they kill stuff and eat it , the whole gas chamber thing is way overboard in my opinion unless maybe your killing a bunch of them at once , personally i go and get a mouse , i don't pre kill it, but i stun it by flicking it in the head, that way it stuns the animal and disorients them , then drop it in the feeding tank or whatever you feed your snake in, usually my snakes snatch them up before they get there bearings completely back , i know a lot of people would say that is cruel to do that but i don't think its any worse than making a ghetto gas chamber and killing it that way . I may be wrong, but back in the day, like before people could order dead rats online , i never herd of frozen rats , people either feed live , stunned or pre killed. all this is just my opinion , im not saying that it is the wrong or right way , i say do what your comfortable with and what your snake is comfortable with

yeah i'll probably keep feeding live, the pet shop i go to doesnt have much of a selection. but the live adult mice they have seem to be perfect size for now"after the first live mouse he is now in shed" plus he took the live mouse WAY faster than the f/t. plus its easier to go and grab a mouse on feeding day than have my g/f griping about dead mice in the freezer lol. plus it seems healthier because the frozen mice they have are real skinny looking