Mojave

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I disagree. Quality and variation makes a huge difference in combos and super forms. But you are right that breeding to different qualities produces different quality offspring. A poor quality single gene wont make as impressive combos as a high quality one. However, having high standards for single gene morphs is a must! Having an amazing base morph will produce amazing combos. Those combos will produce amazing base morphs in return. Its a cycle.

Example, breeding a bright pastel vs a dark muddy pastel will make a huge difference in offspring. Especially in regards to the super pastel and other combos.

Another example on how quality effects a 'combo' is albino. If you breed light colored hets, you get a light low contrast albino, which is not favorable. High contrast albinos are more desired and that can only be achieved though darker hets.

Food for thought.

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i agree that the quality of the individual gene is important. Especially in pastel there is variation, enchi used to be enchi pastel, now people talk about lemon pastel, different lines exist, etc. But then with some combos it just goes out of the window. So a quality pastel is light and doesnt darken out too much with age, so i guess you would produce good pastels by breeding to light normals. And with cinnamon, you want the snake to have rich dark browns, so to produce nice single-gene cinnys you would breed to awesome looking dark normals. Now you breed them together to make pewters and it all goes out of the window. And if you then breed the pewter to a normal again, well, the 25% normals you get could be anything from light to dark.

or, your example, you like the dark, high-contrast mojaves. And now you breed a pastave. now what, choose a dark pastel where everyone says it doesnt look like a good pastel on its own? or a nice awesome-looking light pastel? Maybe for that you should have used a lighter mojave with less darkness to begin with.

for high-contrast albinos, you could work with very dark hets, thats one way. But its not that reliable because you dont know how much of the darkness of the dark het is really genetic. If you want a really high contrast albino that will pass on the high contrast when bred to other albinos with a 50% chance, you just go for cinnamon albino or black pastel albino.

i dont say you shouldnt select the best animals for breeding, you definitively should. But when i want a mojave and dont know what projects exactly it will be used for in the future, i would select for health and fitness and nice patterning, but would not select one that is unusually dark or light. Just a very good example on how a normal single-gene mojave should look like, without any other unusual genetics going on, thats what i would want, simple and straightforward.

Best Regards

Heres mine.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/19/9u6yhu2a.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/19/7ase5aby.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

i agree that the quality of the individual gene is important. Especially in pastel there is variation, enchi used to be enchi pastel, now people talk about lemon pastel, different lines exist, etc.

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You contradict yourself a lot.
And Enchi Pastel is different from Enchi.

The different lines don't matter. They're still pastel.
They just tend to carry characteristics known for those certain lines.
I.E. Citrus - cleaner brighter, Graziani - less yellow, but extreme blushing, etc etc.....

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But then with some combos it just goes out of the window. So a quality pastel is light and doesnt darken out too much with age, so i guess you would produce good pastels by breeding to light normals. And with cinnamon, you want the snake to have rich dark browns, so to produce nice single-gene cinnys you would breed to awesome looking dark normals.

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This is ,in a way, correct. But you still want high contrast cinnys. Not just dark muddy ones either.
I believe breeding to a nice light normal can make steller high contrast cinnys.

Example of a nice high contrast light cinny:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...1f/1300532.jpg

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Now you breed them together to make pewters and it all goes out of the window. And if you then breed the pewter to a normal again, well, the 25% normals you get could be anything from light to dark.

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Not really...
The pewters can vary as well from very yellow to very silver pewters. Lighter to darker to low contrast to high contrast pewters as well. IT just depends on the base morph examples.

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or, your example, you like the dark, high-contrast mojaves. And now you breed a pastave. now what, choose a dark pastel where everyone says it doesnt look like a good pastel on its own? or a nice awesome-looking light pastel? Maybe for that you should have used a lighter mojave with less darkness to begin with.

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I think you do not understand.

No. You would never want to use a dark pastel to make pastaves. Or dark pastels to make anything really. The point of the pastel is to use it's yellows. It's a color mutation. You wouldn't want to use a dark brown pastel. It will show up as dark brown in combos and single genes.

Pastels influence the blushing and alien head colors in the pastave. So brighter the pastel, brighter the yellows will be in the pastave.
The darkness of a high contrast mojo will influence the body and pattern. But really in the end, it doesn't matter if the mojo is lighter or darker. It matters if it has high contrast or not. Yellow on a mojo will become even more yellow in the pastave. That's why I like the dark high contrast mojaves. The yellows pop. I personally think ugly mojaves are one's that are uniform color and have no contrast.
A dark blushed out pastave with bright yellow alien heads = high contrast imo.

Some examples of decent vs high contrast. I'll let you decide which is which.....
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...le/pastave.jpg
http://www.royalconstrictordesigns.c...xample%201.jpg
http://www.bobclark.com/available/ba...astave_f01.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/99444SSC_0023.JPG

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for high-contrast albinos, you could work with very dark hets, thats one way. But its not that reliable because you dont know how much of the darkness of the dark het is really genetic. If you want a really high contrast albino that will pass on the high contrast when bred to other albinos with a 50% chance, you just go for cinnamon albino or black pastel albino.

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Yes. You can use black pastels and cinnys. But that wasn't the point of the example I used.....
It usually is genetic most of the time. There are exceptions of course.
But either way, generally, dark normals will influence darkness in it's offspring and light normals will influence it's trait in its offspring.

Look at Gale's (Angllady2)
fires. She bred a fire to a bright blushed out normal and produced very amazing bright blushed out fires.

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i dont say you shouldnt select the best animals for breeding, you definitively should. But when i want a mojave and dont know what projects exactly it will be used for in the future, i would select for health and fitness and nice patterning, but would not select one that is unusually dark or light. Just a very good example on how a normal single-gene mojave should look like, without any other unusual genetics going on, thats what i would want, simple and straightforward.

Best Regards

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You contradict yourself. You say there shouldn't be a 'breed standard' for a high quality animal. And that it doesn't make sense. Yet you say you want to find a "very good example of a single gene mojave". What is a 'good example' if you don't care about 'breed standards'?

It does matter. A higher quality animal will produce higher quality offspring and high quality combos. I'll use the pastel example again.
A brighter more yellow pair of pastels will make a brighter super pastel that is less likely to brown out. Dirty orange pastels will make a darker more dirty super that will probably brown out.

I will now quote what you said, "breeding standards really dont make much sense. if you breed a mojave to regular BPs of different quality, you get mojaves of different quality. But that doesnt really affect the combos or super-form that much. "
Again, it's not only just general general color or pattern. It's also contrast that makes or break a mojave.
For example, I find an all brown mojave with brown alien heads to be a poor example. If a brown or black mojave had a lot of yellows, that would be a good example imo.

And how do you define what a good example is? By looking for a 'good example', doesn't that mean you're looking for a something with a high standard?

I also agree with everything RoseyReps said as well...

I, too, like the higher contrast Mojaves... Nice yellows, darker back, nice blushing on the sides... Here is mine :)http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/19/uvyhegat.jpg
My phone never picks up his yellow on his back well... It really stands out in person :)

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Originally Posted by satomi325

And Enchi Pastel is different from Enchi.

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I believe he's referring to when Enchi's were first proven out, they were originally called Enchi Pastel, but the pastel dropped off the name. Other than that, I agree 100% :)