Immune System Breakdown: Comparing bp morphs to purebred dogs

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

placing water bowls over/under heat sources (petri dish, much?).

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I have to do this to get the humidity up to 40%, but I also clean the bowls out every night.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

I have to do this to get the humidity up to 40%, but I also clean the bowls out every night.

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Makes sense to me. Most people don't clean that often.

I obviously don't have nearly as many snakes as some keepers, but out of 17 balls, the only one I've had get sick is my only straight normal.

I have MANY ball pythons and no normals at this point (except hets). I have to think very hard to remember my last RI. It was probably 7+ years ago. I used to breed my males more often and would get an occasional RI by the end of breeding season. I now use more males and breed them less often.

Bp morphs to Purebred dogs is apples to oranges.

Morphs have the same number of chromosomes as their wild counterparts. Other than the paint job, they're genetically the same.

Its just some morphs that have heritable issues such as the spider wobble, which doesn't get selected against and the reason why they're still here. But then again, the first spider was an import. The wobble is attached to the spider gene.

And inbreeding occurs often in the wild. I'm not saying its good, it just makes the population have a higher homozygosity.

Sometimes it negatively impacts populations (cheetahs), while sometimes it has no effect and even sometimes is positive (elephant seals).
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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

in central europe german shepherds have such a large population, its easy to breed healthy ones.

one key method should be adopted for BPs as well, and many breeders already do it, that is the paperwork. at least for the breeding animals, even if many breeders are involved, you know the parents, grandparents, which breeders produced the grandparents, sometimes it goes back many generations. And for breeding you pick two individuals that are healthy, where the siblings are also healthy, you compare the paperwork, there should be no matches when tracking it back a few generations. and now you have a breeding pair and can sell at top price, to the government, to hunters, to facilities that train assist-dogs for blind and disabled people, because you have the paperwork to prove that you are producing excellence. Its the same with race horses, they have family trees going back many generations.

today with a computer and a digital camera and a card that follows each snake in the collection, its easy to do excellent documentation. Many breeders already do an excellent job and lots of information can be requested. Im in europe, and if i would be a professional breeder (i am not) and if i would decide to start breeding clowns, an easy way to produce large numbers without inbreeding would be: i buy 3 female clowns, potentially with other morphs going on, in europe, try to get as much paperwork as possible. Then i buy a male clown with excellent paperwork going back at least 2 generations from the USA. Its really easy for big breeders.

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The german Shepherd issue is not about population. It's about standards. The AKC requires form only while the Europeans require the german Shepherd to be functional as well by attaining a schutzhund title. An american german shepherd with an overemphasis on the slanted back and just exaggerated conformation standards defeats the purpose of the actual breed, which is a utility dog. I can't say which line works bettee but I've heard the dogs with exaggerated bodies do not work as efficently.

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The AKC is screwing up a lot of the breeds.

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

The german Shepherd issue is not about population. It's about standards. The AKC requires form only while the Europeans require the german Shepherd to be functional as well by attaining a schutzhund title. An american german shepherd with an overemphasis on the slanted back and just exaggerated conformation standards defeats the purpose of the actual breed, which is a utility dog. I can't say which line works bettee but I've heard the dogs with exaggerated bodies do not work as efficently.

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Actually for german shepherds in Germany the most important things are play and self-control. For a drug or cash sniffing dog, a dog that gets exhausted after 2 hours of playing can only "work" for 2 hours at a time. For any sniffing dog, work is play, cannot be seperated, and german shepherds are the breed that can work maximum hours, even while their scenting power is not the best, because they are bred for play and activity. And then the same breed is also used as assistance dogs for blind and disabled people, here self-control is important. So there is a demand for these dogs, and the price is between 1000 and 2000 euros. Optics are a standard, a side-effect, they are bred for character and play and physical endurance. A quality-bred german shepherd will require 3 times more attention compared to an average dog, but will exhibit above average trainability and intelligence. These are not pets but working dogs, can be pets only for people that really have a lot of time.


but, back to BPs, the royal python really is a lethargic snake, no doubt about it. Or what do you think, compared to other snakes / pets? BPs tend to be incredibly relaxed.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

The AKC is screwing up a lot of the breeds.

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I agree.
Lots of breeds look so different than their original form.

Ok good input so far guys, thanks. But some just a hair off topic....esp all the German Shepherd stuff. Truthfully, I was inquiring about their immune systems. It just seems to me, like dogs today, being selected and bred for certain traits, ball python morphs today and in the future might seem to develop immune problems more readily, and be more susceptible to illness. Especially considering more and more focus is being put on super forms, and triple, quad, and quint gene animals. And my friend is def not a newbie. Weve been breeding snakes for 10+ years, and hes been doing it much longer than we have. I told him I personally think its the room. there may be mold in the walls he cant see, or something like that. Hes considering that possibility. But anyways, really I love all the gorgeous colors and awesome possibilities of all the 4-5-6 gene animals...they are simply stunning and amazing! But Im also concerned that they wont be as healthy, or hardy as some of the older morphs and wild types.

* side note: barbie.dragon, my wife loves your avatar! he/she is a cutie!