Hybrid hate?

I'm afraid I have to demonstrate my lack of knowledge yet again, what do we mean by "muddy" pastels? Pastels whose patterns aren't clear? I must confess that I can't ever think of a time where I've looked at a snake and thought "now that is an ugly snake".....

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Originally Posted by Singer

I'm afraid I have to demonstrate my lack of knowledge yet again, what do we mean by "muddy" pastels? Pastels whose patterns aren't clear? I must confess that I can't ever think of a time where I've looked at a snake and thought "now that is an ugly snake".....

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Pastels that brown out.

I'm with you, I have no hate for any snake. I love my "normals" (I hate the term normal) just as much as any of my morphs.

Is not like I hate hybrids.. some of them are stunning animals... my biggest concern in containment of genetic pull... especially if we talking about species very similar in appearance...

Children and spotted pythons was mix-breeded for long time... and because of that there is handful breeders I will trust to buy spotted python from...

Not even try start me on house snakes.. because mislabeling and misrepresentation 95% of Boeadon Maculatus and Boaedon Capensis are actually hybrids of this 2 species... even what is worse albino gene is transferable between this two species with making things more difficult.

I'm proud that my "Housies" are WC that give me opportunity to start my breeding program and start my own lineage.

Even with Cape House Snake I actually got a hold with guy from Southern Africa who is able to Ship internationally and I'm planning to make investment to bring new morphs and pure line of "capensis" to US.

As of low quality morphs with that big saturation of the market and everyone breeding balls with prices dropping everyday I'm not surprised that some people go with quantity instead of quality road...

But if buyers care more about quality of animal instead of price... brownout pastels right from the egg will disappear from market very very soon

I see, thank you! I don't own any pastels, but I have a Bee who at one year is displaying very little browning. Not breeding her this year, but next year we have a male, also with very little browning lined up to breed her with. here's hoping they have lots of pretty babies!

I still want a Superball(ball X blood), not to breed. Just to have because they're beautiful.

I have mixed feelings about hybrids. I suppose it depends on the animal, species, and if that particular pairing can occur in the wild or not. Also, if that hybrid is intended just as a pet or breeding stock.

Hybrids can go both good and bad ways. Hybridization brings new beautiful species with new blood and genetic material. However, that doesn't necessarily mean its a good thing. Sometimes hybrids cannot thrive or live quality lives (Ligers for example). Other times in the wild, hybrids can out compete their pure counterparts and decimate pure/native populations. So that is a concern if a hybrid ever got out.

Some species are endangered or extinct in the wild. Keeping captive lines pure may help those wild populations bounce back one day. (I.E. Hog Island Boa)

I'm not for or against hybridization. I definitely see both sides of the fence.
I guess everything should be taken case by case...

Remember that there are trace amounts of Neanderthal DNA in modern man. Some more than others depending on where you are from.

So don't hate too much :p

To specifically address the OP's question on hybrids a little further and give some food for thought:

A big concern as mentioned is mislabeled animals. Almost all of us rely on other breeders for sources to expand our projects. Many projects specifically deal with pure localities, subspecies, strains, and especially pure species. I'd hate to be breeding blood pythons for a few years only to find out that my cool looking breeder might actually be part borneo.

This problem is biggest when crossing "close" species. As mentioned, childrens/spotted/other pygmy python species of the genus Antaresia (hope I spelled that right) are one example where the individual species look similar enough that the offspring could be mistaken for either parent species, and even more so for successive generations. I really dislike these crosses, rarely in my eyes do the offspring surpass (to my eyes) the parents in beauty.

We further run into issues when certain phenotypes start disappearing from herpetoculture. It is practically impossible to find patternless-headed coastal carpet pythons outside of Australia. This is because many jungle carpet pythons were mislabeled as coastals, simply because they didn't have outstanding yellow coloration. Many wild jungle carpet python types look "surprisingly" like animals labeled as "coastals" in the US. Pretty much no exportation of animals is allowed from Australia, so I'm out of luck on patternless-headed coastals until some of the rare projects get some movement.

Given these problems, why would someone want to pursue a hybrid project, and if so what hybrid projects might be worth the effort?

I for one really enjoy the look of hybrids that come from distant parent species (in terms of both genotype and phenotype). The best example I have is the woma python. It's so trippy in its looks, with the banding and head coloration that is distinct from the rest of the body. When crossed with other species, the results have been astounding and unique. The ball x woma python has created individuals that are distinct from either parent species, but have extremely obvious influence from both, and is absolutely gorgeous.

Crossing a P. brongersmai (blood python) to a P. Curtus (sumatran short tailed python) pretty much creates a reddish-brown short tailed python that looks like a low grade version of either parent species.