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Re: butter or lesser??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser
Mojaves are a different allele. Lesser and Butter are the same allele. All 3 are the same gene.
If mojaves were on a different allele they couldn't make a super with any of the other BEL genes :P
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Re: butter or lesser??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
If mojaves were on a different allele they couldn't make a super with any of the other BEL genes :P
you're mixing up locus and allele. Locus is a location where a gene sits. Allele is a variation of a gene. Mojave and lesser are different alleles. They are the same gene, which allows the to make supers.
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Re: butter or lesser??????
I never thought of it that way........thanks for the feed back youre reply makes total since! When she gets breeding age and I mate her to my black pastel male (fingers crossed) I can hope for a blackplatium and not a blackbutter, between you and me the blackplatium looks cooler....lol....Thanks again!
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Re: butter or lesser??????
Based on the great info/insight of "ohhwataloser" i can agree that butters and lessers have different allele from mojoves.......i dissagree however that butters and lessers are the exact same, cause a butter bee and a lesser bee, look totally different, the same with a lesser pastel and a butter pastel, black butter vs the black platinum; the list goes on and on. It, to me at least, seems the butter morph combos black color is blushed out or fadded, brown looking even, while morph combos with the lesser are darker where the black color comes in. Even with the blue eyed differ from one another depending on which ones are combined (slight purple coloration in the head area). So I guess the only true way of knowing is to wait and see if/when she breeds.....and if/when that happens I'll be more then happy to share my results with you all...!
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Re: butter or lesser??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by treachery
Even with the blue eyed differ from one another depending on which ones are combined (slight purple coloration in the head area).
Super Mojave will make a purple/grey headed snake, as for lesser and butter....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...r/_MG_4915.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...ut124341as.jpg
look the same to me. As for the combos you listed, just look at the lesser combos and see how many of them you would have to divide up to meet your idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by treachery
So I guess the only true way of knowing is to wait and see if/when she breeds.....and if/when that happens I'll be more then happy to share my results with you all...!
You already have your answer, it is a lesser, breeding doesn't tell you origin. You know your animal came originally from RDR's platinum. What it looks like has to do with all the breedings that have been done since then. It's not just the lesser gene making it look like that, there are potentially thousands of other genes. those other genes can tweak color blushing pattern ect.
we will however be more than happy to see what offspring you produce :)
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How many times over the years do you think that someone has bred these two morphs together and then incorrectly sold the offspring as a Lesser when it was really a Butter? What if this happened near the beginning of these projects before they were widely available to the public? Because of this, perhaps a few dozen of the first "Lessers" were actually Butters, and now a large portion of the Lessers/Butters in the world could be incorrectly labeled.
It's a good thing that they're the same morph and it doesn't matter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treachery
...i dissagree however that butters and lessers are the exact same, cause a butter bee and a lesser bee, look totally different, the same with a lesser pastel and a butter pastel, black butter vs the black platinum; the list goes on and on. It, to me at least, seems the butter morph combos black color is blushed out or fadded, brown looking even, while morph combos with the lesser are darker where the black color comes in. Even with the blue eyed differ from one another depending on which ones are combined (slight purple coloration in the head area). So I guess the only true way of knowing is to wait and see if/when she breeds.....and if/when that happens I'll be more then happy to share my results with you all...!
The are exactly the same. The only difference is selective breeding of the lines to have a slight visual variation. This is like how Lemon pastels are bright yellow compared to the duller, but blushed out Graziani pastel lines. Not to mention the sandy coloration of Blonde pastels. No matter how variable they look, they're still all pastels in the end.
How many examples of all the different butter/lesser morphs and combos have you seen? The pictures on WOBP do not represent every example out there.
The differences you are seeing between black butters vs black platinums, pastel lessers vs pastel butters, butter bees vs lesser bees, etc etc are a direct heritable result of the individual parents and different examples of the morph. There are bright reduced butters, but there are also equally bright reduced lessers. Both morphs can also have really creamy busy examples too, and so on.
And when it comes to combos, you have to take parental looks into consideration as well. Both parents contribute to the offspring. A busy spider could have bred to a lesser for a busy lesser spider offspring compared to a reduced spider breeding to a butter for a more reduced butter spider offspring. A blushed out pastel bred to a lesser could have more blushed out offspring than a less blushed out pastel to a butter. A darker black pastel has influence as well as a browner black pastel.
In the end, they're the same mutation. Different lines with a lot of variation.
Its not like all people of the same race or ethnicity look exactly the same either.
Would you be able to list the butter or lessers in the pictures the people provided above(including mine)?
And purple headed BEL is characteristic of Super Mojaves. You don't see them in butter/lesserxMojo or butterxbutter/lesserxlesser gene BELs.
And what do you mean that you will have to wait until your snake breeds?:confused: You bought her as a lesser, so her offspring will be lesser or lesser combos..............
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Re: butter or lesser??????
Unless you sequence the alleles you won't know for sure they are the same. Crossing into different lines and observing the same phenotype with each allele definitely suggests they are the same or similar. That is they could be the same type of mutation. Maybe both alleles result in no protein but sequence wise the mutation is different. The Mojave allele could result in a partially functional protein. All conjecture until the gene is identified and the alleles sequenced. But you can get close to definitely knowing the answer with genetics.
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They do look the same, but a good lesser will always stand out. You guys make me want me lesser girl here more now lol.
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