I'm a mouse breeding failure

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Anyone with mouse breeding experience care to comment on what went wrong here?

Is it typical for them to kill each other off?

What could have prevented it?

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In case someone wants to respond (if I get good info, I might try again), here's how this went down-

We bought three mice from the pet store, one male and two females (according to the employee). We put them in a traditional mouse/rat/rodent cage with paper towel, food (African grey pellets, cat food, and crackers), water, and a wheel. Within five minutes, they were squeezing through the bars. We transferred them into a large plastic tub. The original cage fits comfortably inside, so we took the door off and put it in there so there would be something to attach the wheel and water bottle to. Yes, there were holes, plenty of ventilation.

They were definitely doing what they were supposed to do, and often. About three days later, it was feeding day and I worked late, so I fed one of the females to my snake. A day or two later, we were in a city with a great snake store, so we bought two more females. The seller said he doesn't separate sexes, so there's a good chance they were already pregnant.

We put them in with the other two and it seemed fine for awhile. Got up one morning and they had offed one of the newer ones. I assumed it was because we had introduced new animals. So, next feeding day I fed the "new" male to the snake.

As of yesterday, I was down to an original male and female. Last night I noticed the female was lethargic and just "off" so I watched them for awhile. The male was biting on her and just being a jerk in general. Today is feeding day, so because it was so close, I fed the male to the snake. I was hoping I could save the female by getting rid of him, but she was dead this morning.

They've had their cage cleaned every single day. Always had fresh food and water. I put them outside during the day (it's still about 60* here during the day) and brought them inside in the evening.

I might be off on how many days between incident. My memory isn't stellar.

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Originally Posted by EAC Reptiles

I am wondering if the mice that you got were all males. Usually in pet stores the keep females in one cage and males in other to prevent breeding. If all mice were pulled from the male cage it could have been all males. If it was they were probably fighting and killed each other. Now I am not a mouse breeder and don't pretend to be one but that is my guess, a complete guess I might add.

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If she got all her mice from a petsmart/etc then this is probably what happened.

At the stores here, each store only keeps one gender. Although male mice are quite easily different from females ;)

And yeah, males kept together with slaughter each other

Sorry...I added male and female, not two females.

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Thank you everyone, I think what went wrong is pretty evident.
I don't want to kill 300 mice until I finally get it right, I think I'll just go to f/t :)

I can't comment on what went wrong (haven't bred feeders), but I can totally relate to caring to mice as horrid. When I was harboring a couple of females for my mojo boy's feeding strike they were the dirtiest pet I'd ever cared for. Didn't miss them after I fed 'em off!

As far as f/t suppliers go, I've used rodent pro and layne labs. I was satisfied with rodent pro's rats, but I was impressed by how clean and healthy looking the ones from LL were.

If you aren't sure if your BP will like the switch from live to f/t, Petco (and poss Petsmart?) sell frozen mice and rats from "Gourmet Rodent" which is pre-packaged and everything. They're a bit pricey but you could give it a try instead of buying a large quantity online. Call around to other local petstores, I was shocked that so many carried feeders and even frozen!

I personally second Layne Labs. Quality of the feeders has been superb and no broken limbs or tails, etc...

As someone already said, it's not normal at all for properly introduced mice to kill eachother.

60 degrees outside? Try to keep them indoors and at temps between, say, 68 and the low to mid 70s. They can slack off breeding for winter, anyway. Letting them reach about 75 degrees during the day seems to help.

Males, especially young males, will attempt to breed the does constantly . . . sometimes, even when they're already pregnant, like my last buck kept trying to do. Try not to get exited about pinks until the ladies start looking like golf balls. ;)

Dunno if this helps, but I've had crazy-good luck with mice, so here's exactly what I do:
Just use a plain old 10gal with a secure screen top. In this size of cage, use no more than 3 does to a buck -- I've actually had my very best luck with just a pair of mice in this kind of set up and there's only one doe to keep an eye on. Use aspen bedding (although alder works great, too, if you have access to it) and supply them with bathroom tissue they can tear up for bedding. Make toys out of cardboard rather than provide a wheel. Mice tend to love tp and paper towel tubes. I do partial cleans once a week and full clean outs once a week, a few days apart. When they have tiny babies, I spot clean. A properly kept cage with only does in it should have little to no smell -- it's the bucks that have an odor no matter what.

Keep water fresh (duh) and don't be shy about keeping the food bowl filled. A formulated diet is probably best, but I've been doing great with Kirkland Premium Dog Food and rolled oats. Feed what works for your mice!

For introductions, either buy all together or at least buy the does together. It really helps if they're sisters when it comes to not eating the babies. The very best thing you can do, is get your hands on sisters who have been in with their mom for a subsequent litter, because they're less likely to freak out with pinks.

If you're buying the boys and girls separately, qt the mice from eachother for at least a week (longer is always better), then introduce in a new/neutral cage. Make sure there's plenty of food and let them do their thing. The male will try to breed them, but these aren't productive matings. Not yet. That take a few days to a week or so, depending on the age of your mice.

The line of mice helps, but until you can start breeding them, you might not be able to do anything about that.

This might seem like overkill, but it works for me. They're tame and unbothered by me checking on the pinks, even right away. I haven't had an incidence of mousy cannibalism in my maternal line, which is the line I maintain and bring in new males for.

Hopefully some of that helps.
(Or Layne Labs . . . But breeding mice can be incredibly fun in its own right.)

Mice and rats have a rather complex social system. Throwing in random mice together and forcing them to live in close quarters will lead to killing/fighting

I know you already said you're not wanting to try again, but for future readers I wanted to add a little.

There were 3 major problems to it. First, as was stated before, males housed together with females present will kill each other. Males housed only with other males are generally ok. Second, introducing new mice to a group is generally a bad idea, as they will, as you saw, kill the newbies. Third, cleaning the cage every day would stress the crap out of them, especially the males. They like to smell themselves all the time, and when they don't, they stress because they think they're in a new environment, and will pee even more to make everything smell "right" again.

Anywho, hope this helps some! :)

Only thing I can volunteer up about the mice is that they are the stinkiest things EVER. We once picked up a feeder that was very clearly pregnant. My daughter wanted to keep her until she had the babies. So we did. Blech, no more mice for me. If you want to breed your own feeders, why not try rats? They can be super sweet too. I enjoy having our rats.

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