Combo to make the whitest cleanest Leucistics?

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Lesser/Butter Lucy
[IMG]http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/snakesRkewl/Snake%20Forums%20Snakes%20Only/100_7370.jpg[IMG]

As much as I like the clean pure white looks of the super Lesser/Butter I won't do the breeding again...

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Why is that?

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Originally Posted by kaorte

why is that?

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x2

x3!

and can anyone elaborate on Lesser Pieds? Is that Lesser x Pied, or like a BEL that's also Pied? (Because I know Pied is recessive...) Just curious!

x4!
Any secret we are not aware of?

Yeah, is that lesser/butter bug-eyed? It looked pretty normal.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Actually, I think Lesser pieds make the cleanest white snakes. I know that Ralph produced one with zero pattern. You'ld need to put more time into the project, but I think it would be worth it.

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Yeah, but pied always have black eyes. You won't get blue eyes out of a lesser pied.

Maybe it's just me, but I would never do a lesser butter/butter butter/lesser lesser combo because I don't want bug eyed babies.....

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Yeah, is that lesser/butter bug-eyed? It looked pretty normal.


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Those are normal eyes. Bug eyes are huge and almost comical looking. Kind of bulgy...

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Originally Posted by Pickenprod

x3!

and can anyone elaborate on Lesser Pieds? Is that Lesser x Pied, or like a BEL that's also Pied? (Because I know Pied is recessive...) Just curious!

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Its exactly what it says it is. A lesser visual pied (or a lesser that is also pied). Pied is recessive, but recessives have a visual homozygous form. Non visual recessives are hets. It takes two hets of the same gene to make a visual recessive. So if you breed a lesser het. Pied to another het pied or a visual pied, you can get lesser pied babies. Lesser x pied will just produce lesser het pieds and normal het pieds. So normals and lessers that carry the pied gene, but look like regular lessers and regular normals.

Many pied combos look very different than regular pieds. For example, the enchi pied is almost all pattern and no white. The spider pied is an all white snake that may or may not have pattern on its head. The lesser pied is not a Leucistic, but still an all white snake. The black pastel pied is a high white snake with black markings.. etc etc

I hope that makes sense...


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I think it's funny, in real life I have never seen a bugged eye lesser BEL, nor have I ever seen a anything close to a pure white, white diamond. Also not all lesser pieds are pure white http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...piedlesser.jpg

from everything I've seen your best chance at the whitest BEL is still a lesser/butter x lesser/butter, but there is a small chance for bug eyes
then russo x lesser/butter, the one I saw was not as bright as the lesser/butter x lesser/butter, but still nice. If I was dead set on avoiding bug eyes, I would personally try this pairing
then mojave x lesser/butter, but I have seen a few yellow out
then I don't know how often white diamonds are pure white, but I've seen pictures online so apparently it happens, I have yet to see it in real life tho.
and super mojaves imo aren't really worth mentioning if your looking for pure white.

ive never seen a mojave x russo in person so I can't comment on that one.

I'll probably end up doing a lesser x lesser or a mojo x lesser. :gj:

Tbh in real life ive never seen bug eyed supers lessers/butters. I would have no problem doing the pairing just like ill have no problem pairing my cinnamons this year. Am i aware of the possible genetic birth defects the babies could have? Sure am. But im also aware of how to handle the situation. If a couple are both carriers for a disease does that mean they dont have a baby? Hell no, they do anyways. Its just that if they have an unhealthy baby human doctors are able to provide muchhh more healthcare and meds to it than a vet would be to a baby bp. The practice of veterinary medicine just hasnt evolved that far yet for snakes. :)

I would think Jerry does not want to do a butter/lesser BEL again bc when you breed it how do you sell the combos offspring? Imo, butters and lessers are different lines of the same morph. But there are alot of other people out there who think otherwise. Even if someone doesnt think theyre different they would probably be hesistant to buy it bc then any offspring they produce nay be difficult to sell to buyers.

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Originally Posted by Pickenprod

x3!

and can anyone elaborate on Lesser Pieds? Is that Lesser x Pied, or like a BEL that's also Pied? (Because I know Pied is recessive...) Just curious!

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It's just lesser (not BEL) and pied. piebalds when mixed with any of the BEL complex hets have shown a greatly reduced pattern, ofter just a spot or two. Mojave pieds are mostly piebald white with a little color on the head, I know Vin Russo produced what he calls a pinto pied by using his het white diamonds mixed with pied, it has a colored head and a small spot on the body. It appears that the lighter the BEL complex animal the more reduced the pattern which is probably why the one Ralph produced using a lesser has no color at all.

Good point about the black eyes though, I wonder if a true piebald leucistic would have blue eyes or black eyes?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

It's just lesser (not BEL) and pied. piebalds when mixed with any of the BEL complex hets have shown a greatly reduced pattern, ofter just a spot or two. Mojave pieds are mostly piebald white with a little color on the head, I know Vin Russo produced what he calls a pinto pied by using his het white diamonds mixed with pied, it has a colored head and a small spot on the body. It appears that the lighter the BEL complex animal the more reduced the pattern which is probably why the one Ralph produced using a lesser has no color at all.

Good point about the black eyes though, I wonder if a true piebald leucistic would have blue eyes or black eyes?

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CORRECTION: That was Roussis Reptiles that made the pinto pied using the het white diamonds, not Russo. Sorry, my mistake.