Dream Scenario

To be honest before you spend anything on snakes it seems you need to understand genetics a bit better...........

There is no reason to have phantoms and mystics... they are the same thing.....

no reason to have 1.2 pinstripe het axanthics you are shooting yourself in the foot spending alot of money and limiting yourself to makeing 2 morphs.... if that is what you want to swing do something like a het bel of some sort het axanthic male i would go with mojave myself to a pin het axanthic and pastel het axanthic or something simmilar it would open you up to making multiple morphs and make it easier to expand on that project sooner for such a blooming project as black axanthic

and you are doing the same thing with 1.3 mojaves.... why not get the same number of animals save money and expand on you genetic power.. use your phantom male to breed a mojo female, mocha female, and lesser female or something simmilar open your diversity up

I would not buy a pair of champagne the super form is lethal buy a male or female and open up your diversity and use the money on the other champagne for something else....

I wont beat you up any more lol.... you are just new and have blinders on.... yes you will need some normal females at some point but fewer pastel females would be more bang off the line... fewer males with multiple genes would give you more power with less cost of caging and feed... I think you have good intentions, you just need to think outside the box..... dont work so hard to produce stuff that the market is being flooded with, you need to produce something new or rare to be able to move the offspring..... Just think about what I have said... I apologize if I have come off abrasive or rude

I suggest you view this video if you haven't already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrHOBB5zoY
It's not about the quantity of animals you have. It's all about the quality of the animals you have. A few 2 or 3 gene females costing anywhere from $500-$1000 each, when paired to a stunning quality male (preferably 2+ genes) can make you more than a lot of those single gene animals you were planning on purchasing.

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Originally Posted by BWyant

With a 15k investment.... Let's put it this way - I wouldn't allow myself to get bored. Period.

I hear what you're saying though. I've had exotic fish (only really bad part about that was cleaning day) and I've babysat a friend's snakes before. I guess I'm just looking at it as more of a.... I'm 27 and want a business so that I can do something productive with my life, I love animals, snakes are awesome and worth money, why not combine the two and do something that I love rather than sit in a cubicle for the next 40 years?

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I HIGHLY suggest not doing this so fast then. My intention isnt to belittle you in any way, but if you have minimal experience with snakes then you cant honestly say that you know you'll like keeping them.

The fact is no matter how much you spend, theres still a possibility that you could get bored of them. You cant force yourself to love something. If you do get bored of them and are forcing yourself to love them, then taking care of them becomes a chore and is not fun anymore. Thats when the animals will start to suffer. I realize it is possible for someone to hate bps and still take perfect care of them, but ive personally never seen that be the case.

My suggestion for you is this: start out much smaller and with multigene snakes (as david suggested^). I would get a 4 tub rack from RBI and a VE-200 tstat. Get 3 multi gene baby females and start to grow them up. Then in 2 years add a multigene male to breed to them. This will give you the oppurtunity to gain experience with snakes/snake keeping and in your first year of breeding you'll get only 3 clutches instead of WAY more. You'll be able to produce wicked combos too bc all of your snakes are multigened. Spend your money on finding the BEST examples of the morphs you which to breed. Breed what you like, not what will sell best. Because if you cant sell your babies you'll end up having to holdback a bunch of babies of a morph you think is ugly lol.

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

To be honest before you spend anything on snakes it seems you need to understand genetics a bit better...........

There is no reason to have phantoms and mystics... they are the same thing.....

no reason to have 1.2 pinstripe het axanthics you are shooting yourself in the foot spending alot of money and limiting yourself to makeing 2 morphs.... if that is what you want to swing do something like a het bel of some sort het axanthic male i would go with mojave myself to a pin het axanthic and pastel het axanthic or something simmilar it would open you up to making multiple morphs and make it easier to expand on that project sooner for such a blooming project as black axanthic

and you are doing the same thing with 1.3 mojaves.... why not get the same number of animals save money and expand on you genetic power.. use your phantom male to breed a mojo female, mocha female, and lesser female or something simmilar open your diversity up

I would not buy a pair of champagne the super form is lethal buy a male or female and open up your diversity and use the money on the other champagne for something else....

I wont beat you up any more lol.... you are just new and have blinders on.... yes you will need some normal females at some point but fewer pastel females would be more bang off the line... fewer males with multiple genes would give you more power with less cost of caging and feed... I think you have good intentions, you just need to think outside the box..... dont work so hard to produce stuff that the market is being flooded with, you need to produce something new or rare to be able to move the offspring..... Just think about what I have said... I apologize if I have come off abrasive or rude

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Not abusive or rude at all, friend.

That's why I put myself out there to people with far more experience than I've got (zero). You don't get answers if you don't ask questions and you end up making a lot of mistakes if you don't ask for an instruction manual (metaphorically speaking). You were quite helpful. Thank you.

Just wanting to throw another thought out.... any investment in an animal is riskey and well stupid... just think about this....lets say you barrow the money for these animals.... if you do not buy adults (most of your prices reflect baby price) how will you make payments on the loan untill animals are at breeding size? What happens if for something happens and you loose one or more animal (lets face it there are some nasty things in the reptile world that can wipe out a collection quick)....

Why not do it this way... figure out what your monthley payments would be for your 15k loan and make the payments to yourself and use what you pay yourself to build your collection it may be slower but you will not have someone with their hand out saying you owe me.....pay up.... and you will grow your collection slower and have the ability to work on newer more exciting projects that pop up between now and the time you start actually breeding instead of having your set projects and not being able to change directions or aquire new projects along the way... just know how often I change directions on the projects I want to work....

Have you considered where and how you'll sell all these offspring?

Another reason for starting out slowly is to give yourself time to establish a good reputation. What are you going to do if you can't sell a significant amount of the babies you produce? Take the advice given repeatedly by many different posters and go with a couple females. Learn how to breed and sell the offspring while steadily building up your collection. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying animals from a large collection where the owner asks this:

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Cleaner - ? (you'd have to tell me on this one, I'm a newb)

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You better know how to clean everything inside out with that many animals! Start slow, enjoy the ride, and you'll get there in the end if that's your goal :gj:

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

Just wanting to throw another thought out.... any investment in an animal is riskey and well stupid... just think about this....lets say you barrow the money for these animals.... if you do not buy adults (most of your prices reflect baby price) how will you make payments on the loan untill animals are at breeding size? What happens if for something happens and you loose one or more animal (lets face it there are some nasty things in the reptile world that can wipe out a collection quick)....

Why not do it this way... figure out what your monthley payments would be for your 15k loan and make the payments to yourself and use what you pay yourself to build your collection it may be slower but you will not have someone with their hand out saying you owe me.....pay up.... and you will grow your collection slower and have the ability to work on newer more exciting projects that pop up between now and the time you start actually breeding instead of having your set projects and not being able to change directions or aquire new projects along the way... just know how often I change directions on the projects I want to work....

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Someones a Dave Ramsey listener.

LMAO I have never listened to Dave Ramsey.... I just dont believe in buying things I cant afford with few exceptions (house, car ect)

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

I suggest you view this video if you haven't already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrHOBB5zoY
It's not about the quantity of animals you have. It's all about the quality of the animals you have. A few 2 or 3 gene females costing anywhere from $500-$1000 each, when paired to a stunning quality male (preferably 2+ genes) can make you more than a lot of those single gene animals you were planning on purchasing.

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Thanks,

That actually makes me feel better about doing it either direction - lots of snakes or just a few powerhouses.

Don't borrow, buy what you can afford and slowly build your collection...slow and steady wins the race.