Anyone else? Possible positive effect of Burms in Florida?

Fair enough, but I'm not a 'proponent' of them being released into the wild...

I'd call it as it is as well, which is another one of many environmental anthropogenic fails that ultimately doesn't matter very much at all on the grand scheme of environmental anthropogenic fail.

This will come off as doom and gloom but so long as man exists, invasive species will be a problem. On a whole we lack either the insight or the ability to prevent this from occuring. Can anyone here say zebra muscles, chinese carp, kudzu?

As far as what belongs where, we are looking at a blip on the time line and saying that this shouldn't be. However if you look at the green tree python and emarald tree boas there is no doubt that both stem from the same roots back when pangea existed. The seperation has caused each to adapt a little differently, but not that much.

The issue in the everglades while unfortnate, is still basically isolated to the everglades. So the fact that the rest of the herp community across the nation is all up in arms is soemwhat ridiculous. How many of the people who have taken either side on this matter have even been there, or are directly affected by it other then the persecution of your hobby? Some of you will be able to say you have, most will not.

So the question going forward is do we let nature balance itself out, which it will, or further impose man's idea of what is right/good for the everglades/world, and do something to try and correct the situation. I have no doubt if we intervene, we will just be debating the next ill effect that arises from the efforts in the future. Just my $0.02

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I forgot to add since a few have cited the loss of biodiversity, the next time everybody is congratulating a breeder for the newest enchi spider YB ghost DH albino pied, you might want to revisit the definition of biodiversity again.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Does anyone have facts showing all the predicted negative effects?

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Ditto^^ Anyone have any info proving this? I honestly haven't seen anything really definitive, just speculation on the part of wildlife officials... I'm not being facetious, I'd like to get a better personal view on this.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Absolutely true--it's not really introduced species that is the problem, it's a reduction in biodiversity that is a problem. If an introduced species causes a decrease in biodiversity, then it's bad. If it doesn't, then it's probably not really that bad.

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Yep. Balance.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Fair enough, but I'm not a 'proponent' of them being released into the wild...

I'd call it as it is as well, which is another one of many environmental anthropogenic fails that ultimately doesn't matter very much at all on the grand scheme of environmental anthropogenic fail.

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Agreed.

JLC, I generally agree with your stance on this. Our world is always evolving to accommodate new species/environments. That's it's way. Yes, humans progress it by introducing animals to places they're not normally found... but nature does this on it's own as well. Introduced species often hitch a ride with other animals that relocate of their own accord. And environments adapt and change accordingly. Sometimes entire species are wiped out by this natural means... just sayin'. I would just think, since Florida has many of it's own natural predators and such, has anyone done any research on the impact from the other side of the coin? How many of these hatchlings are reaching maturity and big enough to be top of the food chain adn really be a nuisance? Everything I've read says that Burms have been in thst area for quite sometime... a few decades that this point. There has also been a huge boom in the gator population during this time. That has been attributed to it's previously protected status but I don't think it's far fetched to theorize the new Burm baby food source COULD have affected that.

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

This will come off as doom and gloom but so long as man exists, invasive species will be a problem. On a whole we lack either the insight or the ability to prevent this from occuring. Can anyone here say zebra muscles, chinese carp, kudzu?

As far as what belongs where, we are looking at a blip on the time line and saying that this shouldn't be. However if you look at the green tree python and emarald tree boas there is no doubt that both stem from the same roots back when pangea existed. The seperation has caused each to adapt a little differently, but not that much.

The issue in the everglades while unfortnate, is still basically isolated to the everglades. So the fact that the rest of the herp community across the nation is all up in arms is soemwhat ridiculous. How many of the people who have taken either side on this matter have even been there, or are directly affected by it other then the persecution of your hobby? Some of you will be able to say you have, most will not.

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Invasive species can occur without man's intervention and has repeatedly happened across several hundred million years. At some point, many species considered native today would have once be considered invasive. I'm not down playing man's role in invasive species today but let's not be hyperbolic about it.

I believe green tree pythons and emerald tree boas are an example of convergent evolution. Their shared common ancestor has little to do with their present appearances other than both being in suborder Serpentes.

The herp community is up in arms because this issue in the everglades is being used to ban herps and their transport across the nation. I fail to see what's ridiculous about being concerned about a topic that has already forced many people to give up portions of their livelihood and others to forcibly lose their pets.

I am waiting to see some reliable studies about what's going on there. So far, it appears the research behind most of the studies have been seriously flawed. The Everglades National Park biologists have found no dramatic reduction in mammal populations so I'm not sure to what extent, if any, of damage has been done by their presence.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

Invasive species can occur without man's intervention and has repeatedly happened across several hundred million years. At some point, many species considered native today would have once be considered invasive. I'm not down playing man's role in invasive species today but let's not be hyperbolic about it.

I believe green tree pythons and emerald tree boas are an example of convergent evolution. Their shared common ancestor has little to do with their present appearances other than both being in suborder Serpentes.

The herp community is up in arms because this issue in the everglades is being used to ban herps and their transport across the nation. I fail to see what's ridiculous about being concerned about a topic that has already forced many people to give up portions of their livelihood and others to forcibly lose their pets.

I am waiting to see some reliable studies about what's going on there. So far, it appears the research behind most of the studies have been seriously flawed. The Everglades National Park biologists have found no dramatic reduction in mammal populations so I'm not sure to what extent, if any, of damage has been done by their presence.

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I am not denying that the issue of the everglades has been used to seperate some hobbyists from their animals. But we stand on opposite sides waving our pitchforks and torches at one another over this very tiny ecosystem that is isolated to one small portion of one state. Our defense of a position in this matter is giving it more weight and life then is deserved. I think it would serve the herp community better to be asking the fear mongers to produce evidence of the problem, elsewhere in the country. Take the focus away from the everglades and put the onus back on them.

While invasive species can happen under a number of circumstances, it is usually less of an impact when it occurs naturally. A beetle hitches a ride on a floating coconut, deer swim to a nearby island, a burr attaches itself to the fur of an animal that ranges, etc. These are not great distances traveled or drastically different habitats, so the changes are small and more diffused than invasive. But I believe man can and has done more in the last 100 years to propogate the problem of invasive species than has likely occured naturally in the last 100,000. Through indulgence, ignorance, or arrogance we simply won't, can't or don't see the potential for a negative outcome. I don't think that is being hyperbolic.

Here is my argument, for arguments sake.

I hear this all the time. Humans caused this and humans caused that and since humans did it, it isn't natural.

I'm sorry, but I am not under the impression that humans are aliens and came to earth just to screw it up. I believe that we have a right to be here, just like all of the plants and animals of this world. Now that doesn't mean what we do to our precious marble isn't destructive, but it is indeed a NATURAL occurrence. The things we do are just as natural as a giraffe taking a dump on the savannah.

Just because humans were involved in the transportation of a species to a new environment does not mean that occurrence wasn't natural. Everything humans have done have been possible because of what the earth has given us. Nothing more. Humans are part of the ecosystem as well, whether you like it or not. I'm not saying what we have done is RIGHT, but it is in fact NATURAL.

That is, unless you all think we are ALIENS!!! :D

You dont have to go halfway around the world anymore to see these awesome snakes in the wild:gj:

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

You dont have to go halfway around the world anymore to see these awesome snakes in the wild:gj:

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You sir, are someone who finds the silver lining in the darkest of circumstance. Very well done.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I'm sorry, but I am not under the impression that humans are aliens and came to earth just to screw it up.

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Sometimes I kind of wish we were. At least then we'd have a good excuse.

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Originally Posted by gruneaugen86

Sometimes I kind of wish we were. At least then we'd have a good excuse.

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Yeah. I guess our excuse now can be "we are just horrible". lol Humans are very destructive, but that is just how we strive. Eventually the environment will show us who is boss, which is already happening a little with all of these crazy natural disasters we have been having recently. It's natural population control.