Toffino genetics question

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

The poss hets might be really hard to sell given the vast difference in price between a het toffee and a het albino.


dr del

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I expect they'd be REALLY easy to sell, if you price them as het albino, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

The poss hets might be really hard to sell given the vast difference in price between a het toffee and a het albino.


dr del

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I wouldn't call them poss hets. Poss het in the rest of the hobby are used for something that may or may not be a het. With toffino offspring, they ARE hets, just we don't know which gene they got. I would word it as het toffee or albino.

this is of course assuming they sit on the same locus.

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I see it like this. Het albino specimens rarely take more than slightly over the price of a normal CBB IMHO, especially males! Therefore, if I was shopping for a possible het group, I wouldn't care if it was 50% prob het toffee and 50% prob het normal or 50% toffee and 50% albino. What you're really caring about in that purchase is the het toffee. I mean, if they were the same price, I would buy the one that was also prob het albino, but I don't see anyone paying significantly more for the possibility of a het albino. I would assume that their prices would basically be the same considering how expensive het and probable het toffees are.

I think I'd pay a premium for a 50/50 chance het toffee/albino male vs. just a 50% chance het toffee. If I were going to breed it to albino girls I'd want to know that I'd at least have a chance at producing albinos.

Is there a precedence for what to call those 50/50 animals where you know they are het for one of the recessive alleles but you just don't know which allele?

No, I think the Albino/Toffee complex is the first recessive complex that's been identified, so it's never come up before.

Also, I think hatchling het albino females are still going for for 125 to 150, which is considerably more than a normal of the same age. Not much compared with het toffee, though.

It may be such a difference that breeders would be better off holding back their male hets to prove them out on female albinos, in order to sell them for what they're worth. Male het toffees are still going for $3500. Even if you can only expect to get a quarter of that by the time they're proven, it's totally worth it.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

No, I think the Albino/Toffee complex is the first recessive complex that's been identified, so it's never come up before.

Also, I think hatchling het albino females are still going for for 125 to 150, which is considerably more than a normal of the same age. Not much compared with het toffee, though.

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True, but its all relative. When considering the market price of toffees, a het albino and normal are basically the same in price is what I was saying--even if the price difference may be up to 300% of the normal's price. However, I guess Randy has a point. Half albinos is better than all het albinos.

And yeah, they would probably make their money back on proving the males out the year after.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Is there a precedence for what to call those 50/50 animals where you know they are het for one of the recessive alleles but you just don't know which allele?

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I wondered the same thing doing the genetics calc, I went with this...

Male:	Toffino
Female:	Normal
Percent	Fraction	Traits
100%	1/1	Het Albino/Toffee
View Results Page

I saw some 66% het toffees last year for $5500. I thought that, that's a huge price for maybe a normal.


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

That sounds incredibly expensive. There are guaranteed hets and toffinos for much less than that on KS right now. But I'm not aware of the prices on them last year. I want to get a het toffee male, but I don't think I want to spend $3500 on one right now... although it is probably a good investment.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

No, I think the Albino/Toffee complex is the first recessive complex that's been identified, so it's never come up before.

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I was wondering about other species, even outside of herps. Paul H would know. Probably better if we don’t invent our own terminology like “super” if we don’t have to. I’d pick something like “100% het 50/50 toffee/albino” but that would likely confuse people and certainly doesn’t have a ring to it. I do hope some terminology exists that would cover possible hets. Like when you buy one of these males that is for sure het for one of the other what do you call his daughters, “50% het 50/50 toffee/albino”?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I was wondering about other species, even outside of herps. Paul H would know. Probably better if we don’t invent our own terminology like “super” if we don’t have to. I’d pick something like “100% het 50/50 toffee/albino” but that would likely confuse people and certainly doesn’t have a ring to it. I do hope some terminology exists that would cover possible hets. Like when you buy one of these males that is for sure het for one of the other what do you call his daughters, “50% het 50/50 toffee/albino”?

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i dont see a reason to throw the 50/50 in there, kinda redundant. Saying het toffee/albino, the "/" means "or" for most other things, I mean if i say im looking for a lesser het albino/clown/hypo, you know exactly what im looking for, not a triple het. Only time I see it used as "and" is when people say their lesser/mojave BEL. but the BEL is always at the end. Also you know it's not het for both toffee and albino, because that would be a toffino.

outside of the snake world tho, "/" is used as "or" also. I talked to him/her and he/she said something.

so with that you could simply call the poss hets 50% het albino/toffee.