Narrow minded or am I asking too much?

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Everyone realizes, don't they, that humans also have e-coli in their mouths?

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E-coli?

Pffft!


I had a blast scaring people while I was waiting 2 weeks to get my rabies vax.

If they annoyed me, I'd look all crazy and threaten to bite them.

[yeah...weird sense of humor...sue me]

;)

*I* understand about E coli... but he most likely does not.

Again.. if you publish a paper that says that all BPs have E coli in their mouths, how exactly does that help the hobby? DO you think any media will go further to say "And most snake owners don't get sick so it's okay" or will they publish giant glaring headlines "ALL PYTHONS CARRY THE DEADLY E COLI VIRUS!"?

I mean, I don't see the benefit to the hobby to do a scientific paper to prove that E coli is present in BP saliva. I could see it will make a neat paper for you, but saying it'll be good for the hobby is a huge stretch to me.

And again, I understand most E coli is not harmful and it's present all over the place, including in our bodies, blah blah blah. It's the PUBLIC perception of the information that concerns me.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

*I* understand about E coli... but he most likely does not.

Again.. if you publish a paper that says that all BPs have E coli in their mouths, how exactly does that help the hobby? DO you think any media will go further to say "And most snake owners don't get sick so it's okay" or will they publish giant glaring headlines "ALL PYTHONS CARRY THE DEADLY E COLI VIRUS!"?

I mean, I don't see the benefit to the hobby to do a scientific paper to prove that E coli is present in BP saliva. I could see it will make a neat paper for you, but saying it'll be good for the hobby is a huge stretch to me.

And again, I understand most E coli is not harmful and it's present all over the place, including in our bodies, blah blah blah. It's the PUBLIC perception of the information that concerns me.

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This study has already been done a couple of different ways, specifically in ball pythons. I don't remember the results, but I recall they were mainly gram negative bacterium.

What, besides satisfying your curiosity, would be the benefit of this? How would knowing if ecoli is in the mouths of a certain percentage of ball pythons further the hobby?

What school are you going to?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

This study has already been done a couple of different ways, specifically in ball pythons. I don't remember the results, but I recall they were mainly gram negative bacterium.

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Yeah that's what I've found as well, but there are many gram neg bacterium. I don't the information should stop there though.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

What, besides satisfying your curiosity, would be the benefit of this? How would knowing if ecoli is in the mouths of a certain percentage of ball pythons further the hobby?

What school are you going to?

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Do you know how much bacterium are in a cats mouth? It's easy research to figure it out and they have a LOT more bacterium to worry about yet are still highly popular. pasturella bacteria is the one that usually causes infections if a person is bitten, other infections caused by Cat bites:
Pasteurella
Actinomyces
Propionibacterium
Bacteroides
Fusobacterium
Clostridium
Wolinella
Peptostreptococcus
Staphylococcus
Streptococcus
Bartonella is on cat paws and fur, therefore it enters the skin with scratches. Hence the name cat scratch fever, not cat bite fever.

It's about knowledge and understanding. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know as much as they can about something the love to do! If you knew all the risks inherent of BP ownership, do you not agree that it would be an extra tool to educate others to know what they would get into and how much safer they are compared to other pets? I've only characterized the saliva of one BP, that doesn't mean every BP will have E. coli. It's also good to find out if it could be pathogenic to humans or if it's only to help break down their prey. Also it may be able to help determine if there are things that can be done to help decrease the health risks of our beloved pets.

I go to St. Petersburg College, in their biology baccalaureate program. I'm not trying to become a herpetologist though, my goal is to be a physicians assistant in an infectious disease dept.

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Originally Posted by covah-pariah

Do you know how much bacterium are in a cats mouth? It's easy research to figure it out and they have a LOT more bacterium to worry about yet are still highly popular. pasturella bacteria is the one that usually causes infections if a person is bitten, other infections caused by Cat bites:
Pasteurella
Actinomyces
Propionibacterium
Bacteroides
Fusobacterium
Clostridium
Wolinella
Peptostreptococcus
Staphylococcus
Streptococcus
Bartonella is on cat paws and fur, therefore it enters the skin with scratches. Hence the name cat scratch fever, not cat bite fever.

It's about knowledge and understanding. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know as much as they can about something the love to do! If you knew all the risks inherent of BP ownership, do you not agree that it would be an extra tool to educate others to know what they would get into and how much safer they are compared to other pets? I've only characterized the saliva of one BP, that doesn't mean every BP will have E. coli. It's also good to find out if it could be pathogenic to humans or if it's only to help break down their prey. Also it may be able to help determine if there are things that can be done to help decrease the health risks of our beloved pets.

I go to St. Petersburg College, in their biology baccalaureate program. I'm not trying to become a herpetologist though, my goal is to be a physicians assistant in an infectious disease dept.

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No, I do not agree with this statement. I think that anyone who wants a ball python is going to get one regardless of how the bacteria in their mouth is classified. The general public either does not have the knowledge base or simply doesn't care about if the bacteria in an animal's mouth is good or bad (as pointed out by the multitude of bacteria in cats' mouths.) HSUS and others would care very much about a study and you can bet such a study would be included in their talking points to ban exotic animals, of course with the designation of harmless conveniently left out. So, such a study would be helpful but to those trying to ban exotics.

There's also nothing wrong with someone refusing to let you swab their animals. It doesn't make them narrow minded or exhibit ignorance of what you are trying to do. I have a degree in Biology, as well as several published papers, and would never let anyone experiment with my personal collection, even just collecting saliva samples.

If you really think that it's mainly harmless bacterias... why would you jump up to start saying E coli? The fact is that you're curious and want to satisfy that curiosity... but it's not going to further the hobby in any way, and could prove harmful to the hobby if the study is used by AR groups, without using the parts that say why it's probably harmless.

To say that someone is narrow minded and doesn't want to further the hobby just because they don't think that proving BPs have E coli in their mouths is really arrogant. The studies that state that cats carry all the bad stuff in their mouths, the illnesses that can occur from cats will be used soon enough. The AR/HSUS/PETA are focusing first on less mainstream pets. They'll get to cats and dogs soon enough, after all, they're already working on eliminating dogs. They've been working on cats as well, with the huge push that every cat should be sterilized because of that ridiculous "one cat can become 2 billion" claim(I know it's not 2 billion, but it's similarly ridiculous in numbers).

Again, I'm sure the paper would be cool scholastically... and you'd probably enjoy working on it... but to say it's going to help the hobby is erroneous in my opinion. I feel it would hurt the hobby.

I can see a lot of not so good in this and a small amount of good but for what.

What I don't see is anything positive.

People have been keeping and being bitten by Ball Pythons for more than 40 years. I don't know of anyone ever anywhere that has had anything other than an embarrassing story and a few moments of surprise and a bit of a sting come of it.

You seem a rather single minded individual whose focus is on bacteria. That's cool. The rationals and reasoning behind this snake related curiosity that you are using are faulty. For the general hobbyist your work has no relevance that is not already well documented. If you're looking to reproduce what has been done, then I suppose you're on the right track. If you're looking to pioneer, you might want to see what your destination is before you board your train.

He was worried about E.coli? :rofl:

Better tell him to live in a bubble, 'cause that little bugger (yes, even the "harmful" strains) is EVERYWHERE. Literally. Everywhere. You swab it, you'll find it. I'd be more surprised at a result that _doesn't_ yield E.coli. Hah!

Oh the things that will frighten people...ooo! Ooo! Here's what you should do: convince him of the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide!!!

Hrmph, your sweet little poochy friend can carry flesh-eating bacteria in it's mouth with no problem....yes, Ms. "I want to take my sweet little purse-dog into the grocery store with me and let it lick things", I'm talking to YOU!

I'd be interested purely from a curiosity standpoint what pythons have growing in their mouths/guts in general. Considering the type of things they eat (whole animals) it might provide some insight into either their immune systems or perhaps participatory microflora that aids in digestion (although for that you'll need to sample from the other end). A better understanding of the general digestion/immune system of ball pythons couldn't hurt.

And there's no stopping the mindless knee-jerk media rampage. I had a friend who published a study on a certain protein that was involved in SARS transmission, and the media got a hold of it and published front-page articles to the effect of "ZOMG! SCIENTIST FINDS CURE FOR SARS!!!!!", and got her name and the name of the protein confused. :rolleyes: