Scientific approach to feeding?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you have a 2,000gram snake then 10% would be a 200 gram rat. If youre saying you wouldnt do that then when should the 10-15% feeding regimen be stopped? (im not calling you out slim, this is more of a general question for anyone)...

---

I would definitely stop the 10% t0 15%. That a great rule to follow while they are growing but once the snake is an adult you can go to 10 or more days between feedings and got down to 5% to 10%. There is no set rule. Is this snake male or female? Are you breeding? Does the snake refuse meals often? You are going to want to feed a breeding male far far less than a breeding female. The male needs to be kept lean and the female needs larger feedings to support eggs but not so fat as to reduce fertility. My advice to you would be get a good scale. Weigh your snake often and then graph it out. If the graph shows a trend toward losing weight then you are underfeeding. Otherwise you are doing just fine.

From day 1 when i get my snakes i feed 10-15% every 7 days pretty religiously. They grow a bit slower but not really noticeably. But yea im thinking that backing off the intervals and doing 10% every 10 days might be better for the adults.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Egapal

I would never feed a 225 rat to a ball python. I am guessing based on the 2500g to 2000g that you weighed your snake after you fed and then at the end of a fast. Otherwise 500 grams is a lot of weight to lose after a 2 month fast. I am not sure why you are so worried about under feeding your BP. At 2000 grams your snake no longer needs large meals to grow. Its an adult and you should cut back on feeding or the snake will get fat. If it were my snake I would be offering 150 gram rats every 10 days, but that's just me.

---

Several supposed experts told me to think of her as a hollow tube, and to feed the biggest rat that would fit in that tube, so, a rat that is slightly smaller in diameter than the snake. The rats that fit that bill ended up being about 225g each.

I weigh her between feedings, not right after or right before feedings. At her peak she "felt" big, as in, it was noticeable just holding her that she was heavier. Some of the weight at the peak may have been due to retained poop. She shed shortly afterwards, and with the shed came a massive poop. So, I am pretty well convinced that the "experts" who told me to feed slightly smaller diameter rats were wrong. I'm going to stick with the 90-100g rats, every 1-2 weeks

I think the idea to weigh frequently and chart it is great. I will definitely do that and try to keep her right around 2000g which is where she seems healthiest for some reason!

And to clarify, I have 1 female pastel 6 year old, non breeder, pure pet, currently at around 2000g, and no intentions to get anything else. She's the one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smoked Oyster

Several supposed experts told me to think of her as a hollow tube, and to feed the biggest rat that would fit in that tube, so, a rat that is slightly smaller in diameter than the snake. The rats that fit that bill ended up being about 225g each.

I weigh her between feedings, not right after or right before feedings. At her peak she "felt" big, as in, it was noticeable just holding her that she was heavier. Some of the weight at the peak may have been due to retained poop. She shed shortly afterwards, and with the shed came a massive poop. So, I am pretty well convinced that the "experts" who told me to feed slightly smaller diameter rats were wrong. I'm going to stick with the 90-100g rats, every 1-2 weeks

I think the idea to weigh frequently and chart it is great. I will definitely do that and try to keep her right around 2000g which is where she seems healthiest for some reason!

And to clarify, I have 1 female pastel 6 year old, non breeder, pure pet, currently at around 2000g, and no intentions to get anything else. She's the one.

---

out of curiosity what information were you relying on previously? if I'm not mistaken you had a very similar question not too long ago and were given much the same advice as above. you chose to go in a different direction, and that's entirely your call, but it seems that your current experience contradicts the 'experts' and reinforced the general consensus on this website.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you have a 2,000gram snake then 10% would be a 200 gram rat. If youre saying you wouldnt do that then when should the 10-15% feeding regimen be stopped? (im not calling you out slim, this is more of a general question for anyone)...

---

I had this same question immediately as well. I was at an expo this weekend trying to predict the growth of my snakes and buying appropriate feeders. Recently I have been feeding my 250-300g snakes 40-60 grams in 2x adult mice. I Bought a bunch of XS rats ~50g ea and a bunch of S rats ~ 60-100g. I almost bought medium rats but was told that that was a substantial size up.


Everything I've read on this site (my main source of knowledge) has indicated 15-20% of avg weight every 3-5 days for growing snakes and 10-15% for adults every 7 days. I was fully anticipating having to feed larger than S rats (60-100g) at around 500 grams.

Is that completely wrong???? I'd really like to see a more comprehensive thread on this, perhaps with shared weight/feeding logs so someone can make a real assessment on enough data to support it.

I have found that feeding multiple smaller meals weekly keeps them eating more consistently than feeding large meals.
2 meals a week equaling about 15% of body weight to growing snakes and 2 meals equaling about 10% of weight for adult snakes.

I never feed jumbos to any ball pythons, especially males but even females only get fed smalls or mediums when they are adults.
Feed them too large and watch them go on crazy month long refusals, not any more...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I have found that feeding multiple smaller meals weekly keeps them eating more consistently than feeding large meals.
2 meals a week equaling about 15% of body weight to growing snakes and 2 meals equaling about 10% of weight for adult snakes.

I never feed jumbos to any ball pythons, especially males but even females only get fed smalls or mediums when they are adults.
Feed them too large and watch them go on crazy month long refusals, not any more...

---

x2

The 15% "rule" applies more to hatchlings and up to 500g (snake) or so. My 1400g male gets one 50-60g rat per week. My 3000g female gets the same, with roughly one out of four meals being a medium rat (80-120g).

Edit: The reason everyone sees this "rule" posted so often on this site (IMO) is that the people who are usually asking what to feed their BPs just bought a hatchling from a pet store, show, etc. - Not a full-grown adult.

So my snakes at 300 grams eating 60 gram small rats can essentially remain on this diet indefinitely with the meal being offered even less frequently later on? Maybe my female would accept a larger meal here and there if I'm looking to prep her for breeding?


Mind blown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wwmjkd

out of curiosity what information were you relying on previously? if I'm not mistaken you had a very similar question not too long ago and were given much the same advice as above. you chose to go in a different direction, and that's entirely your call, but it seems that your current experience contradicts the 'experts' and reinforced the general consensus on this website.

---

Various sources online, East Bay Vivarium (most people in the bay area refer to them as experts), and this site where many many people said 10% of body weight, even for adults. 10% of 2000-2500g snake range = ~225g rat.

EBV, a well known name in my area, says 1 thing. The breeder I got her from says another thing. A bunch of anonymous people on a forum give varying opinions. Who would you trust? It's just difficult to sort out who is right.

My biggest concern is that there is no consensus among experts. Just look at this very thread! Which is why I was hoping a scientist had studied it more carefully. But it's clear now that hasn't happened, and I am not in a position to make it happen myself. So we're all more or less relying on our own personal experience and observations of our own snakes, with a range of rough guidelines to start from.

Sorry in advance for the wall of tables.

Since we started breeding our own ASFs last year we've been trying to feed our wee ones more often.

1. I'm not drawing any conclusions from the below data since they're all still babies except for Snake #1. He is the only male out of these five and he has been breeding since August/September or so.
   
2. Our methods of record keeping changed several times and some things were not transcribed, but I think there is enough data to get the gist.
   
3. Just about every prey item after April/May is an ASF.
   
4. If it seems like some of them are being fed a lot it is because my wife is a weakling and can't resist their puppy dog eyes.

Snake #1 - Male


Snake #2 - Female


Snake #3 - Female



Snake #4 - Female



Snake #5 - Female