babies vs adults at shows

Just to give people an idea on why an adult female or male may be for sale is most likely space. Lets say you have a 10 slot adult rack and you have some grow outs that are multi gene replacing the single gene adult female or male where are you going to put them? Not all of us have infinite amounts of space. To progress our collections towards higher end morphs and combinations single genes must move from time to time. That doesn't make them bad breeders but just not needed anymore for our purposes. Also to those saying "well why not breeder her because her clutch will be worth more than the sale price". That may be true but incubators don't have unlimited space either and that clutch may not be priority over another.

My only hesitation on buying larger/adult BPs is that I feed F/T. Most breeders with a reasonable number of snakes feed live, and I don't like switching adults over if I don't have to. That being said, I probably would have snagged the adult in both of the scenarios snakelab mentioned, if I was in the market for those morphs. Caramel and pied are two morphs that I see a lot of value in seeing how they retain color as they age.

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Originally Posted by HerpIsAhobby

Just to give people an idea on why an adult female or male may be for sale is most likely space. Lets say you have a 10 slot adult rack and you have some grow outs that are multi gene replacing the single gene adult female or male where are you going to put them? Not all of us have infinite amounts of space. To progress our collections towards higher end morphs and combinations single genes must move from time to time. That doesn't make them bad breeders but just not needed anymore for our purposes. Also to those saying "well why not breeder her because her clutch will be worth more than the sale price". That may be true but incubators don't have unlimited space either and that clutch may not be priority over another.

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This thread is about breeders large enough to vend shows, not pet owners or very small hobbyist breeders with a couple snakes that want more room. It is extremely unlikely a professional or large hobbyist breeder would turn away a healthy clutch of eggs due to incubator space or sell a breedable female at a loss because they ran out of space in a 10 tub rack set up.

I 100% agree that pet owners and small time hobby breeders may give up adult females for room. Spend some time browsing the websites of breeders large enough for ad space on this site and see how many adults you find for sale. There's a reason you'll find almost none.

I understand the points made and they are all good points. For me the reason i sell adults at times is not because there is anything wrong with them. It is because they have been replaced by a combo of that gene or im bot working with them anymore. For example, i am working with black pastel pied stuff so dont need a single gene pied, im working with less caramels now then i used to so i just dont need the extra male and he was replaced by a combo. There comes a point when you just dont need the animal. and you will never see an adult female for sale at one of my tables lol.

Well even the big breeders don't have unlimited amounts of space so selling an adult that doesn't fit still applies. Look at the BHB website or a few others and you'll see a few adults for sale and that number is sure to go up at the end of this breeding season as those adults get replaced with current hold backs. Plus I was only giving one example of a reason people may see an adult for sale other than thinking they are all up because they wouldn't/haven't bred.

Also you most definitely do not need to be big to vend at shows. There are people at those shows who get tables who may have 10-20 clutches a year.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Idk i would have gone with the adults if thats what i was looking for???
Most people probably dont understand all the breeding stuff though...

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I would say that not everybody is into breeding. Or maybe they have future plans that can wait a few years.

I prefer babies as well. Why? The same reason I prefer kittens and puppies: I can see them grow over the years. And I feel some kind of pride seeing that I raised them properly. Also, I tend to have better and stronger 'bonds' with the pets that I've had since babies.

Another plus of babies is the fact that most morphs have better coloration and looks as babies. Not to mention the price!

However, most of the times, the price of the adults is way less than it would cost you to buy the baby and get it to that size (food/water/substrate/electricity).

Although I prefer babies, if it's an excellent offer, I would take an adult without thinking it twice :D




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Originally Posted by HerpIsAhobby

Just to give people an idea on why an adult female or male may be for sale is most likely space. Lets say you have a 10 slot adult rack and you have some grow outs that are multi gene replacing the single gene adult female or male where are you going to put them? Not all of us have infinite amounts of space. To progress our collections towards higher end morphs and combinations single genes must move from time to time. That doesn't make them bad breeders but just not needed anymore for our purposes. Also to those saying "well why not breeder her because her clutch will be worth more than the sale price". That may be true but incubators don't have unlimited space either and that clutch may not be priority over another.

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^^THIS...

I know that big breeders will retire single-gene breeders from their collections as they are replaced by dual-gene or triple-gene breeders. Just because a proven breeder is for sale does NOT mean there is something wrong with it. Case in point, my breeder male mojave. He was on the breeder's table listed for $150 where his offspring were on the same table for $125. I asked the breeder why the breeder male was only $25 more than his male offspring. He said it was because he was replaced with a super-mojave male who was up to breeding weight and the single gene no longer fit into his breeding plans. I picked up up at 650ish grams in August, and he's up to 1100+ and has locked my female 7 or 8 times since November.

To OP, I can only speak for myself but I have 2 BP. One 22yr old female that I have had since she was very small, probably 100g or so when I got her, and one 2 month old albino I just bought at a show (125g). I like to watch them grow, that's part of the fun for me. I guess like someone above said, kind of the same concept as a puppy or kitten.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

Why on Earth would somebody sell her...?

....because she's a poor breeder.

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Though I normally buy babies, I would greatly disagree with this point. Maybe a few years ago this would have been more relevant, but this hobby/industry has blown up and is still growing. Not all breeders and hobbyists(I would argue most, in this case) have an endless amount of room to keep breeders, hold backs, and newer purchases...so when your hold backs and newer purchases are ready to breed, who are you going to let go? The proven breeder, even if he/she was an excellent breeder, to keep space for replacements that either carry an extra gene, or are a nice example, etc... Again, I have mostly purchased babies, but with the near breeders or proven breeders that I have purchased, my experience has been excellent.

If i can i will always buy a baby. This way I can learn its behavior and feeding better than an adult that has established its self in another collection.