Rhp

I think because the further you are the more the ambient temp plays a role with the surface. One small power change close to the source can have greater affects further away. In an arboreal setup (not an expert just brainstorming) I am guessing the surface temps are less of a concern. We are more concerned with the surface temps. Having the probe closer to the surface seems to to work well. I haven't seen her lay on top of it or mess with it because it would be really uncomfortable, and doesn't help her to get anywhere. I hope this continues as she grows. I still can't see her wanting to lay on it. As far as the temps mine range from 90-93 at all times. (I measure with temp gun and probes and the 93 is only on a 1" spot if I take a reading of a 6" spot with the temp gun then it is 90-92.

Good look with your tests I am sure you will get some thing to work.

I get what you are saying but there is a missing bit. Arboreal set ups surface temp is the same concern but the gradient is vertical. From the closest basking spot near the panel to the floor with the lowest temps for that species climate. In a terrestrial set up there is still a gradient top to bottom, any surface near the panel is hotter than farther objects. The hide top is hotter than the floor for example. I have been measuring air temps with a PRT fast response thermometer, and have not noted massive changes in air temps just a few degrees. The surface temps are higher clearly but the air remains close to room temps. I have been finding they work but not as well as I would like. I believe there are better ways, at least in my case with relatively short enclosures 12-18 inches.

I was just thinking about the surface temps in arboreal and didn't think that through lol. I was just coming back to correct that statement. I haven't owned anything that is arboreal yet and totally forgot that surface temps are still a concern for basking.

I forgot that RHP's are supposed to have less effect on air temps than heat lamps and CHE's. I was considering them for my setup as well but stopped when I had successful temps with a heat lamp (switched out for CHE now). Have you tried putting the probe closer to the surface you heating just to see how stable the temps are like that? If the temps stabilize with the probe hovering 4-6 inches from the surface you will then know the position works and then work out a mount for the probe (hang lower of elbow bracket from floor). Worth a shot since you already purchased the RHP.

Just another thought here. (Sorry for long posts but I enjoy problem solving and spit balling seems to work for me.) If you used and elbow mount from surface and your dangle mount for your backup/redundant T-stat that should help in case the animal does come between the main probe and the heat source.

I have been playing with the angle of the probe some I have found that if it is too low it tends to waggle about. WIth the probe closer the temp is extremely variable and related directly to the room temp. I am very fussy, freely admitted. For my personal state of mind I need before an animal is in a new enclosure or new location test everything and get stable rock stable temps hot side cool side and ambient. I thought that the RHP would help with ambient and cool but sadly just the cool surface a bit of ambient but not tons.

I understand being fussy. Glad my temps are good and really I just have to control the humidity but the cypress helps battle the CHE for humidity and temps are regulating nicely. Ambient hot and cool. I just have to pour a little water in and the cypress soaks it and I can wait 4-5 days. Working pretty good.

Did you have something out of whack in your other setups or just experimenting with the RHP? Just curious as to why you were looking at the RHP.

mostly just experimenting. I had thought to move my little rescue to a new location but it is quite a variable temp room (64-80) and I was thinking the RHP might help but no dice.

It is an interesting technology. I am just starting to read more into them. Did yours impact the ambient by a lot or just a degree or two?

Very little that is the big cause of my disappointment. I have been using a well super simple / complex solution currently but it will not manage below 65 easily and the room averages 64 winter but on occasion is cooler than that.

I have been using hot side and cool side flexwatt dual tstat probes both hot and cool. The enclosures are very well insulated in one way or another. (PVCx with 1/2" foam added, glass with 1" foam added, or multi wall polycarbonate and no insulation) Inside them all is a 24 inch fluorescent light fixture and a transformed blue led. These are timer controlled (each enclosure uses different timing) The FL tube produces heat as does the ballast the fixture is vented. the enclosure vents are placed in relation to the air flow of the fixture. The upshot is simple the enclosure uses a passive thermal air flow system that draws air in to the enclosure though the lamp and ballasts. The cool air is heated as it enters the enclosure.

Each is planned carefully and uniquely based on size shape and the position of vents and doors. I have constant hot side and cool side surface temps day night the tstat manages this. The ambient temps ramps up and down. I mapped out the air temps in the middle of the enclosure and generally they look something like this
Time/temp

7am/78º
12pm/83º
3pm/85º
5pm/83º
9pm/81º
1am/80º
4am/77º

Some of the lights are on 12 hours a day and the led on for 8 or 10 hours others the led is on 24/7 and the white is on 12 hours a day. There are a few combinations to get the balance. The operational temp of the ballast remains the same but as the plastic and metal surrounding it warms the air flow increases (convection currents), and cooling it down some. At night the passive venting changes and slows down some allowing the smaller transformer to warm the air more. Balance. A very simple idea but hard to explain and enact.

I thought you might be interested... The problem is when there are extremes of air temps really cool and quite warm in a short period of time the passive system balances out 4 maybe 5º and the shift of 8º during the night and day account for a 12 or 13 º change in room temps but closer to 20 it can't cope and the internal temps get out of control.

Can you manage the room temps using a space heater? I am assuming you have thought of that and it may not be possible or ideal in your situation. If the room temps didn't swing as much it allows for a more controlled environment. It looks like your setup would have no problem maintaining the ambient air temps.

I assume your goal is to have the cage be able to cope with even large changes in exterior room temps. If that is the case it is definitely going to be a challenge.

Would you be able to post a pic or two? Might help to see it just not that I will actually have an answer but someone you never know. Somebody may have a eureka moment.

RHP experiment results.

After a long set of testing and variations I have results.

The short answer RHP do not alter ambient air temps to any large amount. 1-3º is about all that should be expected. They are very similar to UTH only the other way down not up. they work really well but are a replacement not an air heater as many have been suggesting they are.

The test.

I have an enclosure is set up with NO snake! I have been testing this enclosure (no snake was placed in harms way at any point) It is complete water bowl filled and substrate hides everything.

http://images9.fotki.com/v120/photos...RHPtest-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

I ran the panel wide open for a day or so and found it got up to 173º on the surface and 114º in the hide.

The probe placement was interesting I would not suggest placing a probe where a snake can stay between the probe and heat source. This discounts a surface mount under the substrate. The snake is possibly able to lay on the probe and run the RHP flat out resulting in over heating unless a fail safe is used.

I tried a dangling probe but it was not firm enough to stay in place. i then tried heat shrink around the probes wire and that worked fine suspended from the edge of the panel to 4 inches under the centre of the RHP. I set the t-stat to 85º and got a fairly constant 80.7º on the floor it varied somewhat with room ambient but not too badly.

I also tried to fix the probe on a stock from the floor up 2 inches over the substrate this worked well. It provided a more firm mount. I set the t-stat to 81 and got 80.6 under the hide. Again this is all surface temps. So far so good.

The problem comes not using the RHP to regulate surface temps but air temps. There has been suggestions to use this panel to regulate cool end/ambient air temps in addition to a UTH. here is what I found the air temps did.

Average room temp/under hide hot/ under hide cool/ ambient air (from middle of the cage)
64º/90º/79.5º/67.5º
69º/90º/80º/72º
74º/90º/80.5º/77.5º
78º/90º/80.5º/79.5º
80º/90º/80.5º/81.0º

RHPs are seriously great and generating vertical gradients. They are very good at regulating surface temps, basically operating like a UTH that has a lower risk of having a meltdown (I have not had a RHP or UTH do this personally but I have had friends have flexwatt meltdown and melt tubs in the process.) I believe they are great tools. The FAQ from reptile basics speaks of them heating objects not air, I 100% agree and have my test confirm this.

On to part two.