Python Ban and Economic Impact

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Originally Posted by rjk890

I have to laugh every time I read about the Snake "Black Market."

Who is going to raise up a collection of snakes, breed them, incubate them, and then look for buyers on a "Black Market?"
Where are they going to purchase their feeders and supplies, and what Vet are they going to take their illegal animals to when they need medical attention?

If one customer gets caught, and turns in the breeder in exchange for a plea bargain, or no charges to themselves, the authorities will have probable cause to investigate, and make a raid on the breeder.
If you have 20 animals in your collection, that is 20 separate State and Federal felony charges of possession, with the intent to breed and sell, plus the initial sale charge that started it all.

The animals will be euthanized, while snake racks, incubators, and other supplies will be taken and charged as paraphernalia.

I would say if you don't currently run a Marijuana grow house, Meth Lab, Black Market Adoption Agency, or good ole' fashion Whore House, you are probably not going to run a "Black Market" snake breeding facility, as it will probably carry similar consequences.

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You must be under the assumption that the united states is the only market for snakes. You also must be under the assumption that a breeder cant take care of a sick snake without a vet. Plus the ban doesnt stop ownership so you can still take them to the vet. They will NOT ban ownership for the same reason we are in this mess. The fear of releasing animals. Think about it for a second. This is all about control. This has been brewing for alot longer then a couple years. There was talks 15 years ago about trying to control big snakes. The only reason they are able to do it now is because of the florida issue in the glades. And like i said in another post this is our industry as reptile owners, breeders, enthusiasts therefore we need to take responsibillity for thos in our industry that released animals and the ones that didnt take precautions when the hurricane was coming to protect their facilities. These pythons didnt crawl to the glades on their own. Like it or hate it the facts are the facts. We need to take responsibillity. Invasive species is a serious threat and one that wildlife organizations dont take lying down. The snakehead for example was a result of releasing into the wild and now they can not be controlled. We catch em here in the potomac with ease.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

You must be under the assumption that the united states is the only market for snakes. You also must be under the assumption that a breeder cant take care of a sick snake without a vet. Plus the ban doesnt stop ownership so you can still take them to the vet. They will NOT ban ownership for the same reason we are in this mess. The fear of releasing animals. Think about it for a second. This is all about control. This has been brewing for alot longer then a couple years. There was talks 15 years ago about trying to control big snakes. The only reason they are able to do it now is because of the florida issue in the glades. And like i said in another post this is our industry as reptile owners, breeders, enthusiasts therefore we need to take responsibillity for thos in our industry that released animals and the ones that didnt take precautions when the hurricane was coming to protect their facilities. These pythons didnt crawl to the glades on their own. Like it or hate it the facts are the facts. We need to take responsibillity. Invasive species is a serious threat and one that wildlife organizations dont take lying down. The snakehead for example was a result of releasing into the wild and now they can not be controlled. We catch em here in the potomac with ease.

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You are correct, I had not even considered the Black Market in foreign Countries.
:rofl::8::rofl::8::rofl:

"We" don't need to take responsibility for anything that "we" had no part in.
Not one of my animals is loose in the Glades.

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Originally Posted by rjk890

You are correct, I had not even considered the Black Market in foreign Countries.
:rofl::8::rofl::8::rofl:

"We" don't need to take responsibility for anything that "we" had no part in.
Not one of my animals is loose in the Glades.

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...Really? Enough said after what you quoted was said...

One thing I have been criticized for on other topics was being insistent on breeders acting like a business, there are so many whom seem to run like a underground business no address, no insurance, no record of any employees and perhaps no registration or tax information. That means they simply do not exist as far as the government is concerned. This is where it is going to bite back with no business records on file there is no income and the economic impact is reduced. I was told that each snake can bring in 30,000 a year. I am still skeptical of this big time but if even 1/3 of this the number is right.The numbers of boa breeders makes this a huge economy IF they have been registered and paid taxes on the income if not... they simply don't matter. What I believe to be the worth of the boa breeding and what can be proven by hard fact may be a huge difference. Perhaps monumental. I can't say for sure but it sure seems like this is likely the case from my perspective. It is a shame as this pseudo business practices may actually do more harm than anyone could ever have foreseen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rjk890

You are correct, I had not even considered the Black Market in foreign Countries.
:rofl::8::rofl::8::rofl:

"We" don't need to take responsibility for anything that "we" had no part in.
Not one of my animals is loose in the Glades.

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As either a snake owner or a breeder you are a part of the industry therefore as part of it you do have to accept what goes on. The attitude of, it wasnt my sbakes that got out or i didnt do it, only fractures us even more. If we are going to get anything accomplished it has to be done as the industry against the govt not a bunch of people going in all different directions. There is a huge overseas market. Dont think for a second people wouldnt take the chance on getting animals out of the country. There is a black market created whenever something becomes illegal. As long as there is money involved it will happen.

http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/b...e-other-5.html

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Originally Posted by rjk890

You are correct, I had not even considered the Black Market in foreign Countries.
:rofl::8::rofl::8::rofl:

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You know, it's not actually illegal to EXPORT them...correct me if I'm wrong. So, any black markets in foreign countries would be irrelevant.

I think there are serious issues with enforcing this Lacey Act ruling, which will knock out shipping, but will not prevent someone from driving to pick up an animal. The breeder does nothing wrong by producing and selling the animals, and it's on the customer's head to smuggle it across State lines if that is their intent. It's foolish to believe that will not be done, particularly when rare morphs are involved.

I have trouble seeing many, if any, people getting caught for it.

The problem is, that behavior, if it IS detected, is just going to make the reptile nation look bad.

It is not illegal to breed them or to have them treated by a vet, just for them to cross state lines. And I really doubt the police are going to pull someone over on suspicion of burmese pythons. Also, it is unlikely that fedex would open a package with a burm in it if it was marked as something else.
It's pretty crappy that the Lacey Act won't even let breeders ship to each other.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

You know, it's not actually illegal to EXPORT them...correct me if I'm wrong. So, any black markets in foreign countries would be irrelevant.

I think there are serious issues with enforcing this Lacey Act ruling, which will knock out shipping, but will not prevent someone from driving to pick up an animal. The breeder does nothing wrong by producing and selling the animals, and it's on the customer's head to smuggle it across State lines if that is their intent. It's foolish to believe that will not be done, particularly when rare morphs are involved.

I have trouble seeing many, if any, people getting caught for it.

The problem is, that behavior, if it IS detected, is just going to make the reptile nation look bad.

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If it is legal to keep, breed, and sell them, then it is not a "Black Market," and is not what I was talking about.

I was talking about those that do not care one way or the other about fighting the legislation or bans, and say that when snakes are outlawed, they will be business as usual and sell on the "Black Market."

There are always going to be a few of those, but they don't do the hobby any good, and we should probably largely ignore comments like that, when they can't be discouraged.